Intensity ... followed by mediocrity

the dub lemon · Post by **the dub lemon** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:11 pm

I'm not really sure if this is will be a good answer or not but from my experiences to make things hard it works better if you minimise the number of components in the track but spend more time working on this.

What I mean is you might have some nice drums and a bass line going which sounds like it could be quite hard but as you start layering up nice musical pads, melodies, chords etc it softens it, it can make it more pleasent but removes some of the grit.

For harder stuff try making the drums & bass really heavy and really fill out the frequencies, you need to fill out the same amount of space but with less components so the compenents have to be bigger. Now rather than working on adding more components as the track moves on to keep it interesting instead working on changing up, editing and twisted the basic sounds you already have.

Obviously you need more that drums & a bass line so you'll want some effects, a bit of ambients, stabs and some melodies but let them fit in around the core parts rather than building up a rich sonic texture.

Also thing warm low distortion is nice and pleasent, vicious raw mid/top end distortion sounds much harder.

I don't really know if anyone else will agree with what I've just said so take it as you like, thats just my feelings.

If you want some examples of what I mean check my myspace (in the sig), the tracks called Tree & Squeeze and have layers of sounds, tracks like Juice and Pips are much more simplistic but harder...maybe not the best tracks out there but they're the examples I have to hand.

I hope that helps.

JFK · Post by **JFK** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:14 pm

Yeah Im feeling what youre saying here man.....

Some of my heavier more intense tracks start off brilliant but by the second drop I find myself getting sick of the relentless intensity. I just find it gets a little hard on the ears and just turns you off the track as you say.

I try and listen to the way that Distance and Vex'd et al construct their tunes and try and draw inspiration from that.

The only main difference that I can see is that their tunes have extremely strong hooks and even though (particularly with Distance) the main riff doesnt really change that much it still keeps you locked into the tune for the whole 5 1/2 mins or whatever.

So maybe you have answered your own question.... maybe its because the initial hook isnt good enough to begin with.

Im looking forward to seeing some more replies on this one though as its been bugging the shit out of me for ages!

Peace

apathesis · Post by **apathesis** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:24 pm

The Dub Lemon wrote:I'm not really sure if this is will be a good answer or not but from my experiences to make things hard it works better if you minimise the number of components in the track but spend more time working on this.

What I mean is you might have some nice drums and a bass line going which sounds like it could be quite hard but as you start layering up nice musical pads, melodies, chords etc it softens it, it can make it more pleasent but removes some of the grit.

For harder stuff try making the drums & bass really heavy and really fill out the frequencies, you need to fill out the same amount of space but with less components so the compenents have to be bigger. Now rather than working on adding more components as the track moves on to keep it interesting instead working on changing up, editing and twisted the basic sounds you already have.

Obviously you need more that drums & a bass line so you'll want some effects, a bit of ambients, stabs and some melodies but let them fit in around the core parts rather than building up a rich sonic texture.

Also thing warm low distortion is nice and pleasent, vicious raw mid/top end distortion sounds much harder.

I don't really know if anyone else will agree with what I've just said so take it as you like, thats just my feelings.

If you want some examples of what I mean check my myspace (in the sig), the tracks called Tree & Squeeze and have layers of sounds, tracks like Juice and Pips are much more simplistic but harder...maybe not the best tracks out there but they're the examples I have to hand.

I hope that helps.

Thats some good advice!

the dub lemon · Post by **the dub lemon** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:25 pm

Ah shit, did I mis understand your post...I thought you were asking about how to make harder tracks rather than keep the interest up?

I think harder tracks are more about the big fills rolls, drops and risers rather than smooth progression. More of a choppy style works where is section builds up into the next and each sections changes up quite drastically rather than subley adding or taking elements out.

The thing is even if you have lots of hype change ups and stuff you can get bored or it depending on your mood because it just gets so common that it's not iteresing any more.

Maybe just try attacking it with more perceverence, get a heavy 8bar loop going then add another 8 bars but don't progress until you're happy that that is keeping the heavey vibe going, it may seem tedious at first and you might want to quit but I reckon that after attack a few tunes like that you'll start to get a workflow going and see what works.

Either that or make some nice pleasent soft music and fuck the hard stuff off

Again, fuck knows if that's any help of makes any sense...good luck though!

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:59 pm

you could go the way of grindcore and make all your songs 30 seconds long

tunnidge · Post by **tunnidge** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:56 pm

heidi m. · Post by **heidi m.** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:57 pm

Try not to worry too much about how your tunes are ending up and just aim to get stuff finished for now. You mention about it becoming maybe too abrasive for other people to listen too but this could just be tired ears or just you being mega critical, as all artists usually are. Put some tracks up in the 'Put your works in progress' thread and see what other people have to say. Don't get bogged down trying to sound like other artists either, be you!

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:00 pm

Eops wrote:Thats cool - but I would include any really hard music made by sequencing
eg
If you are in a thrash band its all in the now and that I find very easy
If I were to try and get the same intensity in a sequenced bit of work its so hard to keep that edge

It goes for any hard style - if you have to build it brick by brick its loses sheen (to me anyways) cos you get all desensitised or something

and I want to try and beat that feeling - get me?

if you build the hardest part first, put that last in the song and work backwards till you start off with a softer version of it

it would give your song some great dynamics if the last drop was 10x heavier than the rest

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:37 pm

I haven't really followed whats been said here, so excuse me if I'm restating something thats already been said..

If you want a tune to keep up high energy, surely it is necessary to offset this against 'mellow' parts. Thus, if a tune has a mellow intro and break down, the drops and extended murkage sections are all the more likely to be rowdy..

I always try to bring a minimum of three bass tones to my tunes, each with its own variations per 16 bars.

wrexile · Post by **wrexile** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:37 am

I sometimes have this happen to me actually. Start of and you're really buzzing off the track and you feed off it's intensity, but after a break the adrenaline dies down and you find yourself thinking less of the track... Almost like it's gone stale or something.

Maybe you should just work and work and work on the track until it's finished. Don't allow yourself to have a break. Just make the whole track and worry about mastering it at a later date. Use the break for when you've finished the lay out and then get on with polishing it up.

It could be pretty much impossible though n I've just given you shit advice

Anyway, hope you manage to push through it

Maybe it's just a phase, like sexual orientation confusion

abZ · Post by **abZ** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:47 am

Title of thread = DNB post 99

At least you have something, there are enough tunes out there that is borefest from start to finish.

knobgoblin · Post by **knobgoblin** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:56 am

what futures untold says. In order to have really intense parts that dont become lifeless thru repetition, you need to offset them with other "mellower" parts. I feel like the atmospherics are super important to this. Longer soundscape type breakdowns where it gets quieter and weirder make the heavy parts sound insane when everything comes back in. Also, dont blow your wad in the beginning. Save some ear candy for the later half of the track. And do more sound design. I like having multiple bass sounds that play off each other, almost in the way that MC's trade off in things like Run DMC and Beastie Boys. You can use 4-5 bass lines that interact with eachother better than you can use 1 that is automated like crazy...unless you really want the wobble-tron lfo fuckery for 5 minutes type track. Also, if you are getting bored of it, interrupt it, as violently as possible (ala muslimgauze), and then take it in a whole different direction.

Intensity ... followed by mediocrity

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