Sub Bass Question...

[ov3rdos3]

Hi Guys,

I am having ONE last problem with my production technique. The Sub Bass. Now I know this is pretty simple but I must be missing something.

I divide my Bass into two channels. 20hz - 100hz (Sub Bass - Sine Wave). 101hz - 250hz or whatever (Mid bass).

Now I understand the concept of making a sine wave really low so you have a sub bass. Fine, thats all dandy, but the problem is it sounds so....weak. I use the 3xOsc on FL studio, bring down the volume of the 2nd and 3rd and just have 1 osc doing the single sine wave thing. It just sounds weak, and doesnt seem to gel with my mid bass.

Are there any tiny Sub Bass tips you guys can give me with regards to this? It would be much appreciated. Perhaps an ADSR tip? Im not sure. but this is not killer sub bass. Also, am I required to compress the sub bass?

Thank you!

E

[2mb1o]

humm ...Keys are important.
A sounds loud .. C not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

You can use an ADSR on pitch (808 like).
Buses are also usefull to gel Sub & Mid : compressors / filters with automations / ...

[ketamine]

True sub bass is pretty much invisible (even in big commercial releases, like hiphop music) until its reproduced on a system that can push out that frequency.

If you've truly got a dedicated Sine OSC pushing out waves at 20 - 100, then believe me, its there.

But what I've found more useful (I work in Logic btw, but this should apply), don't use the same instance of the synth thats pushing your high bass, with one OSC set to sine. It never seems to work good.

Use two instances--one with your top bass, another with your pure Sine sub. Adjust volumes independently.

BOOM

[ketamine]

And I would crossover lower than 100, btw (the low sub). Around 80. Your kicks should be sitting around 90.

[jsills]

start with volume, check your levels and spectrum and see where the sub is hitting. i typically mix my sub about -3 or -4 db compared to my kik and snare. then you want to choose the key. F# is a favorite for heavyness. i then compress to smooth the bassline out so each note hits at the same level. theres not much more to it than that. a simple sine wave at the right level will rumble.

oh and depending on how your monitoring keep in mind that lower frequencies may not translate properly on your system. took me a WHILE to learn how to properly mix subbass on my setup.

[jsills]

True sub bass is pretty much invisible (even in big commercial releases, like hiphop music) until its reproduced on a system that can push out that frequency.

Use two instances--one with your top bass, another with your pure Sine sub. Adjust volumes independently.

BOOM

that what i do

[tavravlavish]

one of my problems with sub bass is volume consistency, one note hits low then the next one comes in its a lot louder, its really annoying. Did you say u were compressing it to avoid this problem?

[jsills]

word> compression is key for volume consistency. (nice phrase, coin it*) im no expert in compression, i sort of do what sounds good to me but, basically you bring down the threshold until the volume is consistent how you like it and then re-adjust the volume back to where you want it to peak. attack, release and ratio to your liking. cake.

oh and one more thing, to get the mid and low to gel, blend, whatever, eq is your friend. say no more.

[BoldEquation]

I actually read on Gearslutz at one point that you shouldn't compress bass. Reason for this is something to do with how it reacts with subwoofers, (can't remember exactly at the moment) but by compressing it I think it removes the amount of push it will have on a speaker. I find what works best for me is setting up a spectrum analyzer, then watch those peaks below 100hz.

In ableton I setup an Analog instrument and use two Sine waves, one is an octave higher than the other. In my analyzer I'll get two peaks, let's say around 80 and 40. If you have bass that's getting louder at different freqs. it's either something to do with your monitoring situation, or the analyzer will show you that one of the peaks is louder than others. The best way to fix this, once you've finished your bassline arrangement, watch the analyzer, and whatever note plays louder just throw in an EQ with a real tight Q and lower that note till it's the same. You'll get a similar effect to leveling it off with a compressor, but without making all the unwanted lower freqs louder.

Hopefully that's a start. Make sure you use two sines, an octave apart.

[marshy]

I actually read on Gearslutz at one point that you shouldn't compress bass. Reason for this is something to do with how it reacts with subwoofers, (can't remember exactly at the moment) but by compressing it I think it removes the amount of push it will have on a speaker

The easiest way that everyones seems to forget is velocity. Just lower the velocity on the higher pitched sub notes until they sit all at the same level. Voila!

[legskeattch]

Marshy very sick tip my friend!

[Sinus Sawtooth]

I actually read on Gearslutz at one point that you shouldn't compress bass. Reason for this is something to do with how it reacts with subwoofers, (can't remember exactly at the moment) but by compressing it I think it removes the amount of push it will have on a speaker

The easiest way that everyones seems to forget is velocity. Just lower the velocity on the higher pitched sub notes until they sit all at the same level. Voila!

You sir, won the internetz!





But yeah, same technique I use, though I have to say, it's not an technique for the lazy person

[FSTZ]

I use a multifilter on my sub bass and dial each lpf so it makes every note hit

click my soundcloud link and listen to "Metaflexible" if you want to hear what I am talking about

if you want to see how I got that, let me know and I'll post a screen shot

[jsills]

I actually read on Gearslutz at one point that you shouldn't compress bass. Reason for this is something to do with how it reacts with subwoofers, (can't remember exactly at the moment) but by compressing it I think it removes the amount of push it will have on a speaker

The easiest way that everyones seems to forget is velocity. Just lower the velocity on the higher pitched sub notes until they sit all at the same level. Voila!

You sir, won the internetz!





But yeah, same technique I use, though I have to say, it's not an technique for the lazy person

im going to have to do more research on the "to compress or not compress your subbass" debate. you got me thinking now.

[marshy]

You sir, won the internetz!

[wabble]

light compression ftw? also maybe a resonant filter at say around 60 Hz? slight reverberance can change the magnitude of things aswell.. o and unless it hasnt been emphasised.. EQ.. and not jus the sub bass... creating room for ur sub bass is prob more important than the actually eqing of the sub bass.. subtractive eqing is only way in my book

[ov3rdos3]

Hi guys,

Thank you so very much for all these tips. I havnt had a chance to play around yet, but I will give a few of these a shot (or maybe a combination of some of the tips). Always found it very helpful here. Thanks again!

EDIT: One teeny, tiny last question though. It has to do with the method of EQ cut offs. When I cut my sub bass at 100hz (or, probably 90hz from now on, thanks to the dude here who told me to do that from now on), I use (obviously) an equaliser plugin. Now, I do not know if I am to "roll" the EQ off above 100hz, or to actually, dead-cut it. No roll off, just lock EVERYTHING up from 90hz to zero and have 90hz at default, middle range.

Is this a terrible technique / bad habbit? Should I be rolling my EQs off and not cutting them, basically at a right angle?

I do this for almost all my sounds. I dead cut the EQ of everything so I have dedicated space in my EQ range for them. Personally, I think it works pretty well with keeping all my sounds "un-muddled", but I do not want to get into the habbit of doing this incorrectly...

Thank you again so much everyone.

[deadly_habit]

people do realize in essence compression is just an automated process the same as riding the gain controls right?

[paravrais]

I don't compress my subs or eq or filter them :\ I don't see the point when they sound more than fine how they are. I used to spend ages layering 2 sines together and detuning them or layering a sine and a square or compressing the sub to keep the levels consistent etc etc blah blah blah but eventually I realised that a simple sine wave played at the right level with the right notes is all you need. That's it. It really is that simple.

People mess up their subs by overcomplicating things.

[ov3rdos3]

I don't compress my subs or eq or filter them :\ I don't see the point when they sound more than fine how they are. I used to spend ages layering 2 sines together and detuning them or layering a sine and a square or compressing the sub to keep the levels consistent etc etc blah blah blah but eventually I realised that a simple sine wave played at the right level with the right notes is all you need. That's it. It really is that simple.

People mess up their subs by overcomplicating things.

I think you may have just solved exactly why my sub bass sounds so "weak".

It's in the wrong note...