Benefit Fraud

[firky]

If there is one kind of person that is the absolute pits, it's a grass. Don't do it

yeah, cos having money stolen off you every month and watching your next door neighbour get paid to do fuck all and being happy with that doesn't make you a mug.

Ah yeah, so because a woman goes to her house everyday when her daughter is out the woman is a thief.

[__________]

wow alot of grasses here.

Is it still wrong to be a grass if you know of a paedophile in your area?! Fuck that, grass them up!


If you pay tax, you pay for people's benefits. I think it's in every taxpayer's interest to stop benefit fraud.
^ Interesting points Firky, but if we've got the average man thinking it's OK to fuck everyone and rob benefits, its no wonder we've got politicians doing the same shit on a bigger scale.

[capo ultra]

I'll bet a lot of people here think that people that refuse to work shitty jobs all their lives are no use to society

[firky]

Makes me laugh, most of you lot are all very anti Daily Mail but if you scratch below the surface you're sure to find something unpleasant.

[fuagofire]

If there is one kind of person that is the absolute pits, it's a grass. Don't do it

yeah, cos having money stolen off you every month and watching your next door neighbour get paid to do fuck all and being happy with that doesn't make you a mug.

Ah yeah, so because a woman goes to her house everyday when her daughter is out the woman is a thief.

No the government are the thieves and she's a fucking scrounger.

[capo ultra]

wow alot of grasses here.

Is it still wrong to be a grass if you know of a paedophile in your area?! Fuck that, grass them up!


If you pay tax, you pay for people's benefits. I think it's in every taxpayer's interest to stop benefit fraud.
^ Interesting points Firky, but if we've got the average man thinking it's OK to fuck everyone and rob benefits, its no wonder we've got politicians doing the same shit on a bigger scale.

actually it's the other way round. Why should we sit idly by while we get taken for mugs? While they are profiting left right and centre, no blame it on the woman next door that looks suspicious.

[firky]

If there is one kind of person that is the absolute pits, it's a grass. Don't do it

yeah, cos having money stolen off you every month and watching your next door neighbour get paid to do fuck all and being happy with that doesn't make you a mug.

Ah yeah, so because a woman goes to her house everyday when her daughter is out the woman is a thief.

No the government are the thieves and she's a fucking scrounger.

My earlier point proven and in concrete, thankyou.

[jameshk]

this descended into arguments quicker than usual. big ups.

[capo ultra]

[fuagofire]

If there is one kind of person that is the absolute pits, it's a grass. Don't do it

yeah, cos having money stolen off you every month and watching your next door neighbour get paid to do fuck all and being happy with that doesn't make you a mug.

Ah yeah, so because a woman goes to her house everyday when her daughter is out the woman is a thief.

No the government are the thieves and she's a fucking scrounger.

My earlier point proven and in concrete, thankyou.

which was what?

[HamCrescendo]

emmas head looks photoshooped on

[ahier]

tbh this issue is far more complex than the capo/firky side or everyone else side make it out to be.

Lets say she is committing benefit fraud. If you were to cut out the middleman (i.e. government) then yes, she is basically stealing from you and other taxpayers, which is very frustrating.
On the other hand, tory attempts to crack down on benefit fraud by getting rid of the benefit system would be laughable, were it not so harmful to those who actually need it (of which there are thousands).
So the question is really, which evil is greater - the one on one side or the one on the other? The problem is that for people to claim benefits more responsibly, the entire system needs to be rewritten in a way that im not even sure how, whereby those who need benefits can still receive benefits but the incentive to work is greater if your options are work vs claim. However, no government will take that step to work out the best way to rewrite it because in the short term, as people claiming are at the moment, the risks involved seem too great, and their priorities are unfortunately more to do with saving party face in the short term rather than improving our lives in the longterm.

simply reporting her to 1 up your neighbour though doesnt really seem like the solution to anyones problems; she isnt necessarily evil shes just a product of a improper system

(edit - seems i started out saying its more complex but jus agreeing with capo and firky in the end)

[Lichee]

tbh this issue is far more complex than the capo/firky side or everyone else side make it out to be.

Lets say she is committing benefit fraud. If you were to cut out the middleman (i.e. government) then yes, she is basically stealing from you and other taxpayers, which is very frustrating.
On the other hand, tory attempts to crack down on benefit fraud by getting rid of the benefit system would be laughable, were it not so harmful to those who actually need it (of which there are thousands).
So the question is really, which evil is greater - the one on one side or the one on the other? The problem is that for people to claim benefits more responsibly, the entire system needs to be rewritten in a way that im not even sure how, whereby those who need benefits can still receive benefits but the incentive to work is greater if your options are work vs claim. However, no government will take that step to work out the best way to rewrite it because in the short term, as people claiming are at the moment, the risks involved seem too great, and their priorities are unfortunately more to do with saving party face in the short term rather than improving our lives in the longterm.

simply reporting her to 1 up your neighbour though doesnt really seem like the solution to anyones problems; she isnt necessarily evil shes just a product of a improper system

(edit - seems i started out saying its more complex but jus agreeing with capo and firky in the end)

don't make me laugh. A product of an improper system, seriously? She doesn't have to abuse the system you know? I mean holy shit am i living in a dream world where it is good to essentially steal from your neighbour? This issue is not complex at all. It is very, very simple. She may be a benefit fraudster, if she is not then fair play, if she is then it should be stopped. That's the end of it, none of this bullshit 'fuck the man and society, even though im sat on the fucking internet i'm a rebel'

I honestly put it to anyone to say that my taxes deserve to potentially pay for this woman to do nothing.

[firky]

As i said at hte start....

Personally I am not really that bothered that some people abuse the welfare system in this country. It's a small price to pay for having the security of a welfare system, it may not be the best - part of the reason people commit 'benefit fraud', but it's there and it's all we've got. I wrote to the government asking how much they lose on benefit fraud each year and how much they spend on the prevention of benefit fraud, including advertising, tv campaigns, government and local government departments that are set up to tackle benefit fraud etc. and of course it exceeds the cost of benefit fraud it's self. Quite interesting I thought - coupled with the fact that MPs routinely rob us of tens of thousands of pounds in expenses, quangos, PFTs, corporate tax fraud and so on then the problem of benefit fraud is left looking really rather insignificant.

[test_recordings]

It would be far more useful to address the inequalities of the current situation where dickheads at the top get all the money at the expense of all the slaves at the bottom, then there wouldn't be such a need for welfare... the UK could well not be classed as a '1st world' country if you try judge the minimum wage against actual costs of living

[fuagofire]

simply reporting her to 1 up your neighbour though doesnt really seem like the solution to anyones problems; she isnt necessarily evil shes just a product of a improper system

Yeah, you have a bit of a point, I suppose it's a bit like blaming the people who took on toxic mortgages/loans on for the financial crash of 08 and ignoring the irresponsible stnuc who lent them the money in the first place.

On one level though I don't mind helping out people who are in the shit, I think the arguments come with various opinions on what being in the shit means. To me, it's people who are actually ill or handicapped, you know, people who actually need looking after. I suppose people who can't get jobs due to a recession would come under that category too. a few other exceptions perhaps.

What I don't like is being accused of being a daily mail reader or a tory voter because i'm opposed to theft of my property, i.e. the little amount of money I am able to generate at the moment. Lots of people are currently in this position.

Apparently because people such as myself object to having almost half our income stolen through tax, national insurance(which is a giant fucking ponzi scheme that the country can't afford.http://www.debtbombshell.com/) VAT, road tax, petrol tax and various sin tax's not to mention inflation........We are a bunch of daily Fail reading spastics who could never reach the intellectual level of the superior guardian reading wizards of win, the master race of nice people who know the score and are right about everything all the time.

To learn the money stolen of us is to be handed over to people who haven't been fucked to get a job for 20 years, or to people who were stupid enough to think the government would be able to honor their public sector pension schemes is seriously insulting. If it were a private company operating in the same way it would be illegal and probably called a 'GANG'

[ahier]

tbh this issue is far more complex than the capo/firky side or everyone else side make it out to be.

Lets say she is committing benefit fraud. If you were to cut out the middleman (i.e. government) then yes, she is basically stealing from you and other taxpayers, which is very frustrating.
On the other hand, tory attempts to crack down on benefit fraud by getting rid of the benefit system would be laughable, were it not so harmful to those who actually need it (of which there are thousands).
So the question is really, which evil is greater - the one on one side or the one on the other? The problem is that for people to claim benefits more responsibly, the entire system needs to be rewritten in a way that im not even sure how, whereby those who need benefits can still receive benefits but the incentive to work is greater if your options are work vs claim. However, no government will take that step to work out the best way to rewrite it because in the short term, as people claiming are at the moment, the risks involved seem too great, and their priorities are unfortunately more to do with saving party face in the short term rather than improving our lives in the longterm.

simply reporting her to 1 up your neighbour though doesnt really seem like the solution to anyones problems; she isnt necessarily evil shes just a product of a improper system

(edit - seems i started out saying its more complex but jus agreeing with capo and firky in the end)

don't make me laugh. A product of an improper system, seriously? She doesn't have to abuse the system you know? I mean holy shit am i living in a dream world where it is good to essentially steal from your neighbour? This issue is not complex at all. It is very, very simple. She may be a benefit fraudster, if she is not then fair play, if she is then it should be stopped. That's the end of it, none of this bullshit 'fuck the man and society, even though im sat on the fucking internet i'm a rebel'

I honestly put it to anyone to say that my taxes deserve to potentially pay for this woman to do nothing.

see firkys point

As i said at hte start....

Personally I am not really that bothered that some people abuse the welfare system in this country. It's a small price to pay for having the security of a welfare system, it may not be the best - part of the reason people commit 'benefit fraud', but it's there and it's all we've got. I wrote to the government asking how much they lose on benefit fraud each year and how much they spend on the prevention of benefit fraud, including advertising, tv campaigns, government and local government departments that are set up to tackle benefit fraud etc. and of course it exceeds the cost of benefit fraud it's self. Quite interesting I thought - coupled with the fact that MPs routinely rob us of tens of thousands of pounds in expenses, quangos, PFTs, corporate tax fraud and so on then the problem of benefit fraud is left looking really rather insignificant.

i am not denying that she is doing wrong. However what is the point in trying to fight her when if the system got a decent overhaul then people wouldnt be in a position where claiming benefits would be a better prospect than actually working. Hence the complex, it is 1 evil vs another, so a simple solution (as you propose - criminalise all benefit cheats! - is) is not a good long term answer.

[fuagofire]

As i said at hte start....

Personally I am not really that bothered that some people abuse the welfare system in this country. It's a small price to pay for having the security of a welfare system, it may not be the best - part of the reason people commit 'benefit fraud', but it's there and it's all we've got. I wrote to the government asking how much they lose on benefit fraud each year and how much they spend on the prevention of benefit fraud, including advertising, tv campaigns, government and local government departments that are set up to tackle benefit fraud etc. and of course it exceeds the cost of benefit fraud it's self. Quite interesting I thought - coupled with the fact that MPs routinely rob us of tens of thousands of pounds in expenses, quangos, PFTs, corporate tax fraud and so on then the problem of benefit fraud is left looking really rather insignificant.

oh sorry, didn't read that. For the record I do realise the government money spunked on benefit fraud is minimal compared to say, Iraq.

[firky]

IIRC Benefit Fraud, which includes administrative errors (i.e. when they get it wrong!) accounts for 2% of the total welfare cost.

Where as tax fraud by corporations costs us 15 times more.

http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser ... ud/a378274

At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.

[fuagofire]

IIRC Benefit Fraud, which includes administrative errors (i.e. when they get it wrong!) accounts for 2% of the total welfare cost.

Where as tax fraud by corporations costs us 15 times more.

http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser ... ud/a378274

At £30 billion per year, fraud in the UK is more than twice as high as thought, with tax evasion costing the public purse over £15 billion per year and benefit fraud just over £1 billion.

If you get mugged and you don't let the mugger know about the £50 note hidden in your sock does this make you a fraudster?