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Diminished chords don't need to have the four notes if they are a triad chord.

Anyway im bumping this cause we could all use a little extra theory in our dope beatz

this might be a weird thing to post for a first timer, but I just thought I'd share something with you all that I didn't see mentioned. check these articles out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues_scale

the tritone is an interval that isn't in any classical scale because it is the most dissonant interval. after I first learned about it, I immediately recognized it from tons of drum and bass. if you want music that has an edgy or dark feel, you definitely will want to use tritones.

the tritone is a semitone less than a perfect fifth, the same as the interval between C and F#. so in scales that are built around the tritone, you will use it in place of the fifth. as people mentioned, the dominant notes in a baseline should be the root and the fifth, so really dark music should have the root and the tritone as the main bass notes. for a more dynamic feeling, you can alternate between the fifth and the tritone. so if your song was in C, you might have a bassline like C2 - C2 - F#1 - C1 - C2 - C2 - F#1 - G1.

the blues scale includes the tritone, just mentioned, but also the third and seventh are also lowered by a semitone. so instead of playing C - E - G as the root chord we can play C - D# - G. generally you want to alternate between playing the flattened version of a note and the regular version, so you might play a sequence like C E G A# - C D# G B.

another common feature of these scales is the use of half flats and pitchbends. to accomplish either of these things in a synth, you will need to use the pitchbend MIDI parameter or wheel. if you set the wheel's bend parameter to equal one semi-tone,then a half flat would be exactly in the middle of the wheel. so I might play C C G and hold it and bend down to a half flat above F#.

these techniques are essential to all african american-influenced music. if you learn how to listen for them, you will hear them in hiphop, jazz, r&b, drum and bass, etc all the time. in the same way that adding swing can make a 16th note quantized pattern have a much more fluid feel, using these techniques in addition to one of the classical scales described earlier in this thread will make your music much more melodically interesting.

hope this helps!

qirin wrote:the tritone is an interval that isn't in any classical scale because it is the most dissonant interval. after I first learned about it, I immediately recognized it from tons of drum and bass. if you want music that has an edgy or dark feel, you definitely will want to use tritones.

Agreed, tritones are badass. Back in the day, use of tritones in music was forbidden by the church because they thought it was satanic (read: badass).

Also, nice first post.

I've had a lot of time on my hands recently so I decided to start memorizing scales. I started with A minor and was working my way through the rest of the minor scales and at the same time I started to read about diatonic modes and realized that by memorizing one minor scale you are essentially memorizing 7 different scales….

This is pretty useful information so for anybody who doesn't know about modes I'll do my best to explain.

Each major scale consists of seven different notes. For example, C Major is CDEFGAB

If you start the scale from C (or 'base it' on C or play it over a C chord or make C your key) you are playing in the Ionic mode -- also known as the the Major mode, which we all know has a 'happy' feel.

But if you start/base/key the scale on any of its other notes, you will be playing in a different mode:

-Start on the 2nd note 'D' (making the scale instead DEFGABC), you will be playing in Dorian mode, which is sort of sad/serious sounding (this is also known as the Dorian scale in the key of D)

-Start on the 3rd note 'E' (making the scale instead EFGABCD), it's Phrygian mode, which has a sweet-ass Spanishy feel (again this is now the Phyrgian scale in the key of E even though it's the same notes as the C Major scale)

Here I'll just list it out with some basic descriptions so it's easier:

C Major / A Minor
1. C Ionian (happy) *AKA major
2. D Dorian (sad)
3. E Phrygian (sad/spanish/dark)
4. F Lydian (happy)
5. G Mixolydian (happy/tension)
6. A Aeolian (sad) *AKA natural minor
7. B Locrian (sad/dark)

*note that what is called the 'natural minor' scale is really just one of these modes, starting on the 6th note of the major scale that it is based on.

And obviously this can be transposed to every other key. Not sure if this is useful but I actually listed them all out for reference sake:

A Major / F# Minor
1. A Ionian
2. B Dorian
3. C# Phrygian
4. D Lydian
5. E Mixolydian
6. F# Aeolian
7. G# Locrian

A# Major / G Minor
1. A# Ionian
2. C Dorian
3. D Phrygian
4. D# Lydian
5. F Mixolydian
6. G Aeolian
7. A Locrian

B Major / G# Minor
1. B Ionian
2. C# Dorian
3. D# Phrygian
4. E Lydian
5. F# Mixolydian
6. G# Aeolian
7. A# Locrian

C Major / A Minor
1. C Ionian
2. D Dorian
3. E Phrygian
4. F Lydian
5. G Mixolydian
6. A Aeolian
7. B Locrian

C# Major / A# Minor
1. C# Ionian
2. D# Dorian
3. F Phrygian
4. F# Lydian
5. G# Mixolydian
6. A# Aeolian
7. C Locrian

D Major / B Minor
1. D Ionian
2. E Dorian
3. F# Phrygian
4. G Lydian
5. A Mixolydian
6. B Aeolian
7. C# Locrian

D# Major / C Minor
1. D# Ionian
2. F Dorian
3. G Phrygian
4. G# Lydian
5. A# Mixolydian
6. C Aeolian
7. D Locrian

E Major / C# Minor
1. E Ionian
2. F# Dorian
3. G# Phrygian
4. A Lydian
5. B Mixolydian
6. C# Aeolian
7. D# Locrian

F Major / D Minor
1. F Ionian
2. G Dorian
3. A Phrygian
4. A# Lydian
5. C Mixolydian
6. D Aeolian
7. E Locrian

F# Major / D# Minor
1. F# Ionian
2. G# Dorian
3. A# Phrygian
4. B Lydian
5. C# Mixolydian
6. D# Aeolian
7. F Locrian

G Major / E Minor
1. G Ionian
2. A Dorian
3. B Phrygian
4. C Lydian
5. D Mixolydian
6. E Aeolian
7. F# Locrian

G# Major / E# Minor
1. G# Ionian
2. A# Dorian
3. C Phrygian
4. C# Lydian
5. D# Mixolydian
6. F Aeolian
7. G Locrian

Of course if you want to play in G# Phrygian on your midi keyboard and don't know it you could also just google it or just stick with C major and transpose it on your synth, but start on different keys for the different modes uhh but I guess I little knowledge doesn't hurt no?

Nice!

Sorry for reviving this old ass post but; First of all, AWESOME post, this helped me so much. I just started learning all about production and theory a couple months ago. I just wanted to add on that minor scale = TSTTSTS issue. If he was talking about the Harmonic minor like I think he was, I believe he wrote it wrong or im not fully understanding because it even shows on chordhouse that the half steps for the harmonic minor is 2-1-2-2-1-3-1 which is also T S T T S T+S S. Just hoping OP can add on that

I cheated my way through music theory in college because I have perfect pitch, hahaha

KnightsOfTheRound wrote:I cheated my way through music theory in college because I have perfect pitch, hahaha

So you can sing the notes of an F#m7 from memory then or is it like you can hear a note and name it?

I have decent relative pitch. I have a few notes that I know from memory and can find my way from there.

This article has been a great help to me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression

Absolutely brilliant thread, makes a nice refreshing change

qirin wrote:this might be a weird thing to post for a first timer, but I just thought I'd share something with you all that I didn't see mentioned. check these articles out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues_scale

the tritone is an interval that isn't in any classical scale because it is the most dissonant interval. after I first learned about it, I immediately recognized it from tons of drum and bass. if you want music that has an edgy or dark feel, you definitely will want to use tritones.

the tritone is a semitone less than a perfect fifth, the same as the interval between C and F#. so in scales that are built around the tritone, you will use it in place of the fifth. as people mentioned, the dominant notes in a baseline should be the root and the fifth, so really dark music should have the root and the tritone as the main bass notes. for a more dynamic feeling, you can alternate between the fifth and the tritone. so if your song was in C, you might have a bassline like C2 - C2 - F#1 - C1 - C2 - C2 - F#1 - G1.

the blues scale includes the tritone, just mentioned, but also the third and seventh are also lowered by a semitone. so instead of playing C - E - G as the root chord we can play C - D# - G. generally you want to alternate between playing the flattened version of a note and the regular version, so you might play a sequence like C E G A# - C D# G B.

another common feature of these scales is the use of half flats and pitchbends. to accomplish either of these things in a synth, you will need to use the pitchbend MIDI parameter or wheel. if you set the wheel's bend parameter to equal one semi-tone,then a half flat would be exactly in the middle of the wheel. so I might play C C G and hold it and bend down to a half flat above F#.

these techniques are essential to all african american-influenced music. if you learn how to listen for them, you will hear them in hiphop, jazz, r&b, drum and bass, etc all the time. in the same way that adding swing can make a 16th note quantized pattern have a much more fluid feel, using these techniques in addition to one of the classical scales described earlier in this thread will make your music much more melodically interesting.

hope this helps!

i wouldn't see the dark stuff as tritonusses, more like dimished chords where the second and the last note are left out. Tritonusses are more used in terms of resolving to a (mostly major) tonic (is that how you say it in english) chord. The blues scale is also more like a half dimished chord (for instance C Eb Gb Bb) with some bending notes to it (in my opinion). If you think that way, you can add more of the dimished scaled notes in the lead with a tritonus in the bass for instance. Makes some really cool harmonics.

Just want to point out, this is a great thread. Nice to have a basic refresher; I NEEDED one. Definitely worth the read for a lot of people around here.

Hey I'm a total noob with music theory and dsf for that matter lol but my keyboard only has 15 keys with octave shift and I want to stick little notes on my keys so I learn them quicker but I'm not sure how I should lay it out with less keys ne help wod b awesome

subsainsikizm wrote:Hey I'm a total noob with music theory and dsf for that matter lol but my keyboard only has 15 keys with octave shift and I want to stick little notes on my keys so I learn them quicker but I'm not sure how I should lay it out with less keys ne help wod b awesome

What keyboard do you have?

Anyways, it would probably start on a C, so it would look like this going sequentially:

C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D

Another way to look at it would be:

C C# D E F F# G G# A A# B C C# D going up

D Db C B Bb A Ab G Gb F E Eb D Db C going down.

EZ

I got a umx250

Looks like you have a 25 note, 2 octave keyboard. So start with C and use those notes that I gave you above. When you get to C again, start over.

EZ

your mum wrote:

Hugh wrote:quick question - what are the general rules about going from one scale to the next? Would I be able to move from a C major scale to any other major scale, and are there any rules about moving from a minor to a major scale?
cheers bro ur help is much appreciated

Starting in C major there are a few scales you're more likely to move to:

The Parallel Minor - C Minor
The Dominant - G Major (5th note of scale)
The Relative Minor - A Minor (6th note of scale)

The Relative Minor consists of all the same notes as the Tonic key just starting on A this time instead of C.


Oh and if you're starting in a minor key, let's say B minor, the relative major would be D Major (the 3rd note of the scale). This is obvious as B is the 6th note in D Major.

For more information you can check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

If you wanted to move around using the Dominant note of the major scale you would go from C G D A E B... etc... (going in clockwise)

If you wanted to move around Relative Minor you would go from the major scale the outside circle into the minor scale which is inside the circle (i.e. go from F major to D minor)

qirin wrote:the tritone is an interval that isn't in any classical scale because it is the most dissonant interval.

The tritone is in most every scale.... for example
C major ---> F and B natural.
C minor ---> D and Ab
C harmonic minor--> F and B natural
C melodic minor --> F and B natural; Eb and A natural.

-[2]DAY_- wrote:

qirin wrote:the tritone is an interval that isn't in any classical scale because it is the most dissonant interval.

The tritone is in most every scale.... for example
C major ---> F and B natural.
C minor ---> D and Ab
C harmonic minor--> F and B natural
C melodic minor --> F and B natural; Eb and A natural.

I'm not following there. Where do you find a tritonus in F? Basically, it's the same for all the C scales (for all the scales, for that matter) it's found in all the dominant chords, which is the V (G), the VII (B) and sometimes the III (E). It remains the same for minor chords because you have to raise your VII'th note of your scale in a dominant chord (harmonic). The tritonus is just the guide tone voicing of the V, which gives a very eager feeling to move to a Tonica chord. This makes a nice sounding cadens too.

got a few errors though; in the picture of the minor scale, you show a harmonic minor scale, which is rarely used in western music, only for chord structure, not melodies. The B should be Bb for the classic aeolian minor.
And the text above it is wrong too, the last two should be tone, not semi tone.