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Yo i think this deserves its own thread. anyone want to quote what we have written and start it off?
I have to go play golf. Seriously, i do haha.

deadly habit wrote:

paravrais wrote:The Widdler may use reason but I'm sure he must rewire into something else for rendering? Things exported through the Reason mixer sound very flat and strange, ditto for fruity, all top producers I know of that use it rewire into something else to get that clean crisp sound (I.E Benga). That said fruity *does* sound a lot better than reason and it's quite subtle the lack of quality. I use reason myself and love it but for over a year I was constantly stressed about how no matter what I did I couldn't achieve a nice clean quality sound through it, the minute I got ableton my productions started sounding a million times better!

All the other DAWs I'm sure have the same rendering capabilities though their general layout and workflow seems to give them a signature sound in its own right.

(Btw Futures Untold I was just joking I know you don't really work for them XD)

as far as the widdler doubt it, you can get solid renders from reason if you know your shit. peep icr if ya doubt it. between him and widdler they are edm dons of reason

Most up his work was done solely on Reason, without rewire. Possibly, his best song, sensi samurai, was done purely in reason, written, produced and mastered all in Reason. And to me, that song is one of the best things i have ever heard come out from reason, from him, or anybody else for that matter. Like DH said, you need to know what your doing, your gotta be the top dog to get out the clean, un dull and crisp sound.
Only recently he has stated using other DAW's or mastering units, such as Record when it came out, and he said also dabbled into Logic and using izope of mastering. It still some skill getting out a great master from Reason, nevertheless, it can be done!

Depone wrote:I have to go play golf. Seriously, i do haha.

Golf............. HAHAHAAHAHA

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cmggsd - Reason

http://www.sendspace.com/file/z35tpo - Ableton

I couldn't resist XD So I made a quick little loop (no judgements on the actual loop please it's not meant to be good it's just an example)

These are the same drum samples and the same synths with the exact same settings, no eq or anything added in either program just completely raw notes exported first through reason and then through the ableton mixer. If you think theres no difference in the quality and depth of these clips then you either need your ears or your speakers checked XD

Maybe it is possible to get good results out of reason if you poor hours and hours of blood sweat and tears into getting every single instrument to not sound shit but why bother when you can just rewire and you dont have to??

paravrais wrote:http://www.sendspace.com/file/cmggsd - Reason

http://www.sendspace.com/file/z35tpo - Ableton

I couldn't resist XD So I made a quick little loop (no judgements on the actual loop please it's not meant to be good it's just an example)

These are the same drum samples and the same synths with the exact same settings, no eq or anything added in either program just completely raw notes exported first through reason and then through the ableton mixer. If you think theres no difference in the quality and depth of these clips then you either need your ears or your speakers checked XD

Maybe it is possible to get good results out of reason if you poor hours and hours of blood sweat and tears into getting every single instrument to not sound shit but why bother when you can just rewire and you dont have to??

Nice one.

However, of course if you bounce down a audio file from reason compared to another DAW that one will always appear to sound better. Because a audio file which has no treatment from reason in most cases sound quite unpleasant, hence the idea of people saying it sounds dull. But the answer it said, you have already started it. While on other DAW's you may be able to get away with not treating every instrument, in its own right, but in reason, everything has to be played close attention too, i think anyway.

Mix that loop, one in Reason, and then the other in Ableton live, bounce down, compare. Then if needed, mastering both loops in their DAW's, then check. This will be a more reliable and fair test.

BTW, the only significant difference i can hear is with the perceived volume level.

DAW WARS thread ---> my-daw-is-better-than-yours-daw-wars-debate-t150805.html

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As mentioned earlier, exporting the same synth patch at the same audio settings should produce identical results.

This can be checked as mentioned earlier by flipping the phase on one wave form and listening for differences.

If any processing is down at all, then it is a biased test. How can we really compare Reasons chorus device to Cubase's and call that fair??

If you can tell me which programs I used to create the tracks in my Myspace player, then fair play. Be advised that they weren't all Reaper or Reason either...

futures_untold wrote:DAW WARS thread ---> my-daw-is-better-than-yours-daw-wars-debate-t150805.html

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As mentioned earlier, exporting the same synth patch at the same audio settings should produce identical results.

This can be checked as mentioned earlier by flipping the phase on one wave form and listening for differences.

If any processing is down at all, then it is a biased test. How can we really compare Reasons chorus device to Cubase's and call that fair??

If you can tell me which programs I used to create the tracks in my Myspace player, then fair play. Be advised that they weren't all Reaper or Reason either...

1. Haha, there is not such thing as a friendly DAW battle, this is a fight to the death!

2.
Synapse Orion
Renoise
Renoise
Bias Deck
Magix Samplitude
Cakewalk Music Creator
Cakewalk Sonar
Mackie Tracktion 3
MOTU Digital Performer
Nuendo
Cubase
ACID Pro
Live
Reason
Logic
FL
Garageband
Record

?

a lot of the differences we hear has to do with expectation. if we expect to hear a difference we sometimes will imagine it. i'm not saying this is the case but yeah...

anyway i use renoise and reason+record. when i made my tracks in reason standalone i was obsessed for a while with the sound quality. i did a lot of investigating and discovered some things. the main issue with sound quality and reason arises from the use of the 14:2 mixer. apparently that goes through it is treated slightly. that is why people talk of getting a better sounding result when they rewire, as they would bypass the 14:2 mixer. i don't know how true or false that is but i've read it a few times now.

i think that problem is kind of negated with the release of Record as you don't really make use of the 14:2.

anyway when the differences are so minute that we start having countless debates with no real conjecture then yeah i don't think it really matters that much in reality.

Ok I may do a blind test then... Use two sampled sounds. One playing in reason, and one thru logic.

The examples above ^^^ dont really count for much, as you have used different drum hits. So its technically void. That and its an mp3

Depone wrote:Ok I may do a blind test then... Use two sampled sounds. One playing in reason, and one thru logic.

The examples above ^^^ dont really count for much, as you have used different drum hits. So its technically void. That and its an mp3

They are actually the exact same drum hits XD I think thats case closed!

EDIT: you can have the wavs if you want too but they were almost 5 megs each so i thought it would be easier to just upload mp3s..

the ableton renders are significantly louder which is probably why you perceive such a difference in sound quality.

A screen shot from one of the projects I'm working on now. I usually run with 2 monitors but this is usually how I set it up during playback.

http://i32.tinypic.com/11briom.jpg

My 20 channel Mixer that I run my Keyboard, drums etc.. threw. Right now I only have 1 channel running and that is for my keyboard then I run RCA to my PC


Working on a New Track. in Ableton Live

deadly habit wrote:as far as the widdler doubt it, you can get solid renders from reason if you know your shit

98 percent of anything by me has been done solely in reason/record including mix/master etc. Only this past few months have I gotten into logic. I will say just rewiring to logic makes a whole world of audio difference. As big as one can make reason/record sound it is still in a box compared to the wonderful audio algorithm within logic.

xthewiddler wrote:

deadly habit wrote:as far as the widdler doubt it, you can get solid renders from reason if you know your shit

98 percent of anything by me has been done solely in reason/record including mix/master etc. Only this past few months have I gotten into logic. I will say just rewiring to logic makes a whole world of audio difference. As big as one can make reason/record sound it is still in a box compared to the wonderful audio algorithm within logic.

The widdler has spoken.

the ableton renders are significantly louder which is probably why you perceive such a difference in sound quality.

Listen to the pad type noise in particular, the definition of the high end and the space between the different levels in the sound is significantly different. Yes ableton renders louder but the reason render sounds 'squashed'. Like the widdler said, and as a reason user myself, you can make banging tunes in reason and if you know your stuff you can scrape decent mixes out of it but when you rewire to something else the quality and clarity definitely increases.

wayoftheworld wrote:and sure, fruity may be working out great for you on two 22" monitors, but eliminate one of them and shit gets cluttered with windows pretty quick.

F12?

another thing worth mentioning about reason/record is that subtlety in the mix itself is lost due to clarity. For example after loading a tune i thought sounded good in reason/record into logic i noticed how some things were thin or too crispy or anything like that. Basically the lack of clarity in reason/record helps sometimes mask a less than perfect mix. you have to also push things harder due to lack of subtlety (i.e. eq, fx, pan), not saying to abuse them, but you need to apply things slightly moreheavily than in a DAW like logic where every little move is noticable.

xthewiddler wrote:another thing worth mentioning about reason/record is that subtlety in the mix itself is lost due to clarity. For example after loading a tune i thought sounded good in reason/record into logic i noticed how some things were thin or too crispy or anything like that. Basically the lack of clarity in reason/record helps sometimes mask a less than perfect mix. you have to also push things harder due to lack of subtlety (i.e. eq, fx, pan), not saying to abuse them, but you need to apply things slightly moreheavily than in a DAW like logic where every little move is noticable.

I noticed this a lot when I made the move to rewiring. I had to almost learn to mixdown my tracks from scratch again because it became such a different process. Things I made actually sounded worse for a short while before they got better.

Brisance wrote:

wayoftheworld wrote:and sure, fruity may be working out great for you on two 22" monitors, but eliminate one of them and shit gets cluttered with windows pretty quick.

F12?

are you asking a question? as far as i remember, F12 helps to close the mess of windows, but it's kind've annoying having to then reopen the ones you want to keep working in.

Depone wrote:@ Nowaysj

I do believe each daw has a different sound to them. each ones sound engine is coded differently... soo yeah coming from reason back in the day to logic 7. i noticed a BIG diference. you should do a blind test. Did a few with the uni lecturers

Sorry broz, I got, like unsubscribed to this thread or something and lost track of it.

You'll notice that I excepted reason from my question re daw sound quality. I haven't done a blind test. I felt ableton sounded similar to fruity in a way. I felt cubase had a really tight sound that I liked, but I attributed it to the level of precision with which audio could be arranged.

I've heard some stems from contemporary logic and they sounded absolutely fantastic (inside of fruity )