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From my point of view, I don't see what the raves have to do with people's attitudes towards grime. Obviously it had an effect on the media's attitude towards it and played a small part in its demise, but for me the real problem is the poor production. There's so many good ideas and good beats in grime and when you listen to low-quality streams or on bad speakers they sound awesome. But when you listen to lots of grime on vinyl on good speakers, the production quality really let it down. I know people will say if you polish the sound you take away the raw energy etc, but I don't believe that. The three 'grime' artists that make rich, expensive sounding beats are Joker, Starkey and Terror Danjah. Its no surprise that dubstep (and post-dubstep or whatever you wanna call it) djs are playing their tunes. Just as an example, compare joker's early releases (e.g. earwax ep) with things like digidesign and purple city. I think that if you took the ideas, energy and infectious quality from a lot of grime producers and added top-class production quality, grime would be massive again. Just look at the three artists I mentioned, who are massively successful. The sound/production just needs to mature, although that isn't a given.

My two cents. Anyway, big mix.

rob sparx wrote:

blackdown wrote:The police shut down a ticket-only US house event at Matter this Christmas, grime's not special in that regard...

I could be wrong but from what ive heard from mates who are into grime is that grime night have had a fair bit more attention from the authorities than other kinds of dance music

I remember Pow by Lethal B getting banned in clubs/bars because it would cause a riot whenever it was played! Grime does seem to have a bad reputation with the general public and authorities. Like you said earlier, it seems to attract younger people who perhaps take the lyrics a little too literally and get a bit TOO hyped off it! I'm still a huge fan of grime though, this mix is big.

This is an interesting google trends comparison too BTW: http://www.google.com/trends?q=grime,dubstep,uk+funky,drum+and+bass&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=2

Mix is good like it, musics nice I just find some of the mcs a bit too in your face sure other ppl like that style tho

dan_thompson07 wrote:http://www.google.com/trends?q=grime,dubstep,uk+funky,drum+and+bass&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=2

this graph looks pretty accurate until you see the reference points its using:

Grime figures reveal Britain to be a land of soap and glory
Telegraph.co.uk - Jul 7 2004

Fallen Angel by Stephanie Bedwell-Grime
Crows Nest - Aug 30 2005

Grime stoppers: Code cops keep neighborhoods neat
Colorado Springs Gazette - May 15 2006

Savor tales of tabloid grime and ‘Dirt’
Buffalo News - Mar 2 2008

Multi Agency Operation To Tackle Grime And Crime To Launch In Shipley
West Yorkshire Police (press release) - Nov 18 2008

Zuma shocked by settlement grime
Daily News (subscription) - Nov 19 2009

lol...

etzel wrote:I know people will say if you polish the sound you take away the raw energy etc, but I don't believe that.

I know from mix engineering other ppls tunes that polishing the sound can definately improve whats there in a huge way without killing off the raw energy of the track as long as your careful not to overproduce whats there.

Think I'm gonna start an mix engineering service soon anyone interested send me a message, I'll only take on tunes if I think a better mix will make them a good tune and prices will depend on how much work I think it needs doing

BIG mix

rob sparx wrote:

seckle wrote: i really think that there's something to be said for the UK underground, not wanting to see its own people succeed easily.

That goes for everything in the uk not just music! Theres a real pessamistic gloomy attitude to everything over here thats infectious - mabeye its the weather?

One problem with grime that really stopped if from growing is its got the sort of attitude that brings out the sorts of ppl you really dont want to be at your event, a few years back police were shutting down every night bcos regularly at big events all it needed was a banging tune to be dropped and suddenly its all kicked off and someones got stabbed or cs gas let off etc. - playschool bullshit but not suprising considering a lot of the kids at those events were probably underage

I'll check out the mix anyway see if it changes my opinion....

we've pretty much done events for 5 years now and not had anything shut down. Alot of peoples opionions (not saying yours) on grime raves etc are from a friend of a friend of a friend, whose never actually seen grime live, or based on the perception the music itself can sometimes give off (which by no means is always to be taken literally) - which obv isn't the best way to stay informed -
Yes police have shut down other nights but a lot of the time they're running with the same sort of intelligence as hearsay and rumour as I've mention above.
As blackdown said if someone can get shot at a defected style house rave then maybe the problem isn't the music but something quite a lot bigger..........but thats a much bigger, longer discussion!

anyway, big up elijah and skilliam, big mix.

dirty canvas wrote:Alot of peoples opionions (not saying yours) on grime raves etc are from a friend of a friend of a friend, whose never actually seen grime live, or based on the perception the music itself can sometimes give off (which by no means is always to be taken literally) - which obv isn't the best way to stay informed

True but I'm talking about ppl ive spoke to who were at the events not what the papers say, papers print all sorts of bullshit

i love it !

the debate around grime, violence, policing and MCs has been done to death elsewhere. what's new about this mix is elijah and skilliam's approach to re-empower grime producers and DJs, away from the MCs and their mixtapes as the primary focus of the genre.

While i wouldnt want to see grime MC-free in any way, if you focus on DJing it avoids a whole bunch of these challenges and reminds headz that grime producers have a lot to say. Because lets be honest, the whole dubstep-side of w*nky ie people like Joker n Gemmy, is in many ways grime with more developed arrangements and less MCs!

Benga and coki's ' night ' was in pete tongs top ten chart for nearly two years straight! Thats better than a number #1 in the pop chart in some respects.

seckle wrote:there were a lot of grime purists 5 years ago, that declared on their blogs and on this site as well that "dubstep will never be as big as grime" and how dare anyone try and make a purely "dubstep" community.

5 years later, look how the tables have turned. 5 years ago grime had its own much more developed infrastructure (several magazines, several blogs, radio, websites, good newspaper coverage and forums too) than dubstep ever had in all of its years....yet dubstep has gone global now, and gets bigger every single day. this must really burn the grime purists.

not sure who these straw 'grime purists' are, and in any case this is a false dichotomy. the genres have followed such wildly different paths in the last few years that it doesn't make any sense to compare their success, you're not comparing like with like (nor do your own criteria work for your argument - grime still gets easily as much newspaper coverage as dubstep, and its grass-roots infrastructure, e.g. grimeforum, grimepedia, is stronger than ever). and wiley doesn't really draw hatred, pretty much everyone loves wiley, fans and artists alike.

rob sparx wrote:One problem with grime that really stopped if from growing is its got the sort of attitude that brings out the sorts of ppl you really dont want to be at your event, a few years back police were shutting down every night bcos regularly at big events all it needed was a banging tune to be dropped and suddenly its all kicked off and someones got stabbed or cs gas let off etc. - playschool bullshit but not suprising considering a lot of the kids at those events were probably underage

...

I'm talking about ppl ive spoke to who were at the events not what the papers say, papers print all sorts of bullshit

Some papers also print the facts which contradict your blind guesswork and unsupported hearsay http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/ ... rage-music

seckle wrote:Benga and coki's ' night ' was in pete tongs top ten chart for nearly two years straight! Thats better than a number #1 in the pop chart in some respects.

haha yeah. in *some* respects. in other respects 'night' charted at #98 in the UK singles chart.

i'm not dissing it, it just goes to show you're not comparing like with like anymore.

Big mix im liking it.

Shame nobody really recognises REAL grime music, and all this ediat grime gets the limelight.

big mix!!

liking the new direction terror and swindle are taking grime, and the SRC tune is fucking sick

also the rude kid and maniac beats deserve a shout

can you still post up that 2009 retrospective mix, for people who dont really follow grime its helpful

Check barefiles for wiley and kode 9 rinsefm from 2006. Some real history on that show.

Im rating Royal T for his beats at the moment, been rating Swindle for a while now. Its all about the old timer grime beats though, Low Deep, D Dark, Plasticman, Davinche, Ganjaman etc.

Needs to have Emcees to be grime too!

mos dan wrote:not sure who these straw 'grime purists' are, and in any case this is a false dichotomy. the genres have followed such wildly different paths in the last few years that it doesn't make any sense to compare their success, you're not comparing like with like (nor do your own criteria work for your argument - grime still gets easily as much newspaper coverage as dubstep, and its grass-roots infrastructure, e.g. grimeforum, grimepedia, is stronger than ever).

i dunno dan, they're both london-born, 140bpm dark garage offshoots, so i think it's really interesting to compare them, not least because they could learn from each other.

grime's got this split personality where the grass roots scene is now very compact and the biggest stars have gone so commercial they outsell any artist in dubstep - i'm sure no one in dubstep can have outsold dizzee or tinchy, not even burial. i have lower level metrics too: when i release a "dubstep" 12" on Keysound it sells faster than the "grime" ones, sadly.

you point to 'infrastructure' but really grime's ability to collaborate is poor - there's very little beyond the examples you give of grimeforum, grimepedia - whereas dubstep has expanded exactly because it has formed offshoots and new collaborations in new countries.

yet because it's predominantly dj-based club music, dubstep's potential growth is ultimately capped, until you take the live route like magnetic man into festival venues and concerts or become the backing tracks for r&b artists like Eve etc. funny thing is i could see magnetic man and dizzee bumping into each other at international festivals this year, now that would be a compliment to both scenes!

For any real Grime heads, I suggest to check out a set by S.R.E/Highrise.....It was on the Sidewinder Raw Vol. 3 and features Flex, Savage, Hypes, Vader, MG and DJ Blizzard. Possibly one of the biggest sets ive ever heard, the lyrics cant even be matched by anyone.

http://soundcloud.com/frankofraize/much-malinged