sorting kick/sub conflict - sidechain?

[flexie]

OK,

so this forum has been great been working hard for a few weeks on getting my mid/sub bass sounding nice and working well together -
feeling good with this - been working the EQ and its layered nicely ...

now i need to make sure my kick isnt conflicting with my sub- am i looking for 'ducking' - i'm pretty sure its some sidechain work but i havent done this as of yet... is there any other way... im sure i saw a tutorial where the user did a quick pitch change at the start of the sub with a rapid decay but not sure if you know what im on about here... im in logic... if anyone can point me in the right direction to posts/tutorials while i keep digging would be mch appreciated....

Flx

[serox]

I would say dont bother and would suggest you find a kick that is more suitable, ie less low end. Find one that fits well with ur current bassline and maybe HP it and cut it off where you start to hear the kick reaching the bass.

[flexie]

so this wouldnt be standard procedure?

[serox]

so this wouldnt be standard procedure?

There is no standard procedure tbh. A lot of people work differently and its down to personal taste and what you are after.

Finding good samples that fit is the better path to take tho in the long run imo. I would suggest trying to find 'drum kits' that have ur drums that go together. You may want to layer something with them to boost little bits but its up to you.

[bigfootspartan]

I read something interesting about decreasing the low end frequency of the kick. What I've started doing is EQing the kick so it rolls off a bit at 100Hz, usually I just take it down by a couple of dB and then add a basic side chain to take the sub down a dB or two. That way there isn't ducking but it still all fits in nicely.

In the end it depends on what kind of music you're making and what you want to go for. If you want the energy of a thumping kick then just use a side chain and accept the ducking. If you're making something more chill then it's probably ok to have your kick rolling off a bit at sub100Hz frequencies since you probably aren't trying to get that pumping, over compressed Ibiza vibe.

[Nacklewicket]

to avoid sub/kick interference i work carefully with an eq on the kick and listen very carefully, rolling off the very lowest freq down just very slightly until the kick still has got some sub juice in it but still not interfering with the sub.. its really hard to get it just about right.. sometimes it gets me mad and i just sidechain it to the sub.. but i really hate that because i want sub AND a subby kick. also trying pitching the sub or the kick just a few notes up or down can fix it sometimes

[vertx]

good samples > good gain structure > correct use of eq > sidechain/eq ducking > $$$?

[darigan]

I usually have a sharp low cut around 65 - 70 Hertz on the kick, then make sure my sub is low passed around 60, then sidechain with about 2 - 4 dB gain reduction fast attack, fast release.
Seems ta do the trick, I find with some kicks you can low cut even higher then that without ruining it.
Then theres the method Reso says in uses every now and then which is to have a kick with plenty of sub in it when theres no sub bass playing, then when the sub bass starts use the same kick but with a low cut around 85 - 90 Hertz.

[tylerblue]

There are several ways I handle this issue. It all depends.

1) Arrangement -- Simply don't have your kick and your bass hitting at the same time
2) Sample selection -- Use a kick that doesn't hit in the frequency range as your sub bass.
3) Transpose your kick up/down -- Pitch your kick up a semi-tone or two so that it doesn't conflict with your sub bass. Try to tune your kick so that it stays in key, however.
4) EQ -- treat the kick/bass like a puzzle. Use a linear phase EQ to dip the kick and bass where necessary so they fit together parametrically. Bump each respectively if it sounds better, but use your ears. Use a very accurate EQ (I prefer Waves) because sub frequencies are sensitive and can change your entire mix.
5) Sidechain with a fast attack/release and about 3-4db of gain reduction. Anymore than 3-4db and you start to hear the effect (which people sometimes want for effects purposes, but we're not talking about that here).

[shaneynclan]

i've been sidechaining my sub bass to my kick, and am fairly happy with the results thus far, however I have been told that by doing so you can change the sine into more of a square.
just do it carefully if you want.

[tylerblue]

i've been sidechaining my sub bass to my kick, and am fairly happy with the results thus far, however I have been told that by doing so you can change the sine into more of a square.
just do it carefully if you want.

It's possible. It depends on your attack/release settings. A longer attack time will allow the sub to dip in volume without distorting the sound. However, you want to be careful not to have too long of an attack time, or it defeats the purpose of dipping the sub in the first place.