Right you know what I'm sick of this fucking shit. For those who don't know theres a '(**name edited out)' room holding approx (**number edited out) people all the time, not to name how many come in and out of there.
Some dubs and practically every Dubstep release is being shared. Now don't let this thread get to "well mp3s help grow the scene". If you're realistic thats true as I know a lot of them wouldn't have heard the music without downloading an mp3 BUT it does have bad effects aswell. Especially when I see, for example, (**name edited out) release being given away.
Sharing vinyl releases is a bit different because there are a lot of people who WILL want to buy it on vinyl however mp3 and wav releases that don't see physical form? That just takes the fucking piss.
I seen Bare Dubs 001 being shared up there and managed to make 1 person stop sharing it. But there are still 2 others sharing it. To be frank I know theres not a lot I can do, except say FUCK YOU to the (**name edited out) and a lil thanks for getting the label more exposure.
Why I wrote this is:
1. To draw attension to the matter for those who don't know.
-AND-
2. To see if theres anything we can do? I want your comments and suggestions.
DO NOT REPLY ABOUT HOW SHARING MP3S ARE GOOD OR BAD FOR THE SCENE
DUBSTEP ON SOULSEEK
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djshiva
- Posts: 4933
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- Location: aka sapphic_beats Indianaptizzle, IN USA
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i wish i could say that there's actually a solution to this, but alas, i think the genie's out of the bottle and it ain't goin' back in.
as far as sharing dubs and such, i have seen several people "watermarking" their tunes they share, and that seems a good idea if you wanna track stuff back to people. kuma had a cool idea where he put the name of the person he gave it to into the song, and gave a little personalized funny shout, too. good idea 1) because if he hears that tune in any other mix, he KNOWS who leaked it and 2) it's pretty nifty to hear a shout to yourself in a dub, and it allays any weird oogy feelings one might have because they feel distrusted, cuz it's all geeky cool and shit.
that shit about seeing ramadanman's tunes up there is really sad because he has made his wavs so easy and so inexpensive to get direct from him. i really love what he has done with the "paypal me i'll send you the link to a pristine, transition-mastered wav", and i'm kinda bummed that is going on.
i have found my own released (techno) tunes on slsk before, and i waver between appreciating the extra promotion, and feeling miffed that the label is getting ripped off (i already got paid, it's the labels that take the hit at that point). generally i find that engaging someone in a diplomatic fashion, and talking with them about why it's a problem, while it may not STOP them from doing it again, maybe...just maybe, they'll appreciate the fact that the label owner/artist/whatever took the time to talk with them and BE diplomatic, and that will give them even more reason to support the label/artist by BUYING their tunes.
big admission: i got busted for having a shared tune once, and the people involved were (while not thrilled, i am sure) decent and cool and accepted my apology for being a dumbass. that makes me want to support the label even MORE so because they conducted themselves with true class when i had not. lesson learned...
i know this was a like a novel, but that's what happens the morning after 420...
as far as sharing dubs and such, i have seen several people "watermarking" their tunes they share, and that seems a good idea if you wanna track stuff back to people. kuma had a cool idea where he put the name of the person he gave it to into the song, and gave a little personalized funny shout, too. good idea 1) because if he hears that tune in any other mix, he KNOWS who leaked it and 2) it's pretty nifty to hear a shout to yourself in a dub, and it allays any weird oogy feelings one might have because they feel distrusted, cuz it's all geeky cool and shit.
that shit about seeing ramadanman's tunes up there is really sad because he has made his wavs so easy and so inexpensive to get direct from him. i really love what he has done with the "paypal me i'll send you the link to a pristine, transition-mastered wav", and i'm kinda bummed that is going on.
i have found my own released (techno) tunes on slsk before, and i waver between appreciating the extra promotion, and feeling miffed that the label is getting ripped off (i already got paid, it's the labels that take the hit at that point). generally i find that engaging someone in a diplomatic fashion, and talking with them about why it's a problem, while it may not STOP them from doing it again, maybe...just maybe, they'll appreciate the fact that the label owner/artist/whatever took the time to talk with them and BE diplomatic, and that will give them even more reason to support the label/artist by BUYING their tunes.
big admission: i got busted for having a shared tune once, and the people involved were (while not thrilled, i am sure) decent and cool and accepted my apology for being a dumbass. that makes me want to support the label even MORE so because they conducted themselves with true class when i had not. lesson learned...
i know this was a like a novel, but that's what happens the morning after 420...
Here, have a free tune:
Soundcloud
Soundcloud
Yeah watermarking is a good idea but thats a bit long to be honest... maybe I'll start doing that for dubs although I doubt my tunes would be shared as they'r enot up to standard yet!
Yeah I've tried doing that to a few, even the SoulSeek Admin and I'm awaiting a reply.sapphic_beats wrote:just maybe, they'll appreciate the fact that the label owner/artist/whatever took the time to talk with them and BE diplomatic, and that will give them even more reason to support the label/artist by BUYING their tunes.
hahahah seeen, I like it!sapphic_beats wrote:i know this was a like a novel, but that's what happens the morning after 420...
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ramadanman
- Posts: 2924
- Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:10 pm
by the way, with the ramadanman digital releases, they're now selling on www.digital-tunes.net so i'm pretty sure they were leaked that way, rather than when i was selling direct to people. i'm not pissed off or anything, cos it's pretty inevitable. moreoever its unfair on those who actually paid for the release
can uderstand where your coming from deaps but i honestly don't think there is much that can be done.
Some tracks of mine that i'd sent to people ended up on there so i just locked down who i send them to now... I used to use soulseek for samples and albums you can't buy anymore but it won't even load up on my PC anymore so i can't check if my tracks are still being shared. (If anyone can do a search for me and name and shame the people on here i'd be grateful)
As for legally brought MP3's ending up on there, it's always gonna happen, people will pay to download a track and just keep them in the same place on their computer as they keep and share all their music. Or you have people doing it because they believe they are 'helping the scene'
Bout 3 years ago you couldn't even find dubstep on their but with the explosion of the scene, these tracks, especially the vinyls that you can no longer get are in demand...
Catch 22, if labels make these tunes available as mp3 they will be shared by half the people that buy them...
If they repress the vinyls some people will still rip and share them you can't win...
I bet you nearly all the people sharing dubstep use this forum... i say name and shame...
Some tracks of mine that i'd sent to people ended up on there so i just locked down who i send them to now... I used to use soulseek for samples and albums you can't buy anymore but it won't even load up on my PC anymore so i can't check if my tracks are still being shared. (If anyone can do a search for me and name and shame the people on here i'd be grateful)
As for legally brought MP3's ending up on there, it's always gonna happen, people will pay to download a track and just keep them in the same place on their computer as they keep and share all their music. Or you have people doing it because they believe they are 'helping the scene'
Bout 3 years ago you couldn't even find dubstep on their but with the explosion of the scene, these tracks, especially the vinyls that you can no longer get are in demand...
Catch 22, if labels make these tunes available as mp3 they will be shared by half the people that buy them...
If they repress the vinyls some people will still rip and share them you can't win...
I bet you nearly all the people sharing dubstep use this forum... i say name and shame...
I hang about in the dubstep room, when I am around. However I don't & won't share or download any dubstep stuff. In fact I can't remember the last thing I downloaded at all. Admittedly I mostly lurk, but occasionally I'll chat about something or other. Anyway I buy tons of records so there's no need to download stuff.
The stuff I do have shared, on Irdial, has the record company's permission to be shared anyway,(**link edited out)
the rest are mixes/ livesets etc which are or have been available to download elsewhere, or netlabel stuff which again is ok to share.
The stuff I do have shared, on Irdial, has the record company's permission to be shared anyway,(**link edited out)
the rest are mixes/ livesets etc which are or have been available to download elsewhere, or netlabel stuff which again is ok to share.
i am not sure why anyone would assume dubstep as a genre was exempt from file sharing.
the difference to some other genres may be that right now the problem with dubstep actually, more so outside of the uk, is to satisfy the needs and provide the ordered quantities of vinyl.
most releases sell out fast. we could sell way more copies of certain records here.
you don't want a discussion if it's good or bad, you just imply it's mostly bad. well.
i disagree.
and i run a label myself.
you have to come to the understanding that buying a record is more about supporting an artist than 'owning' a release.
hence i for one don't distinguish in treatment of vinyl rips and digital releases.
most people who don't buy the record and just keep the mp3 wouldn't have bought the record anyway. or bought it to be able to hear it, but be dissatisfied with it. not a good customer to have either. likewise people who have out-of-print records on mp3 that they like will be happy to buy re-presses.
especially in a case like soulseek where most rooms really consist of an enthusiast core.
i can only imagine that part of you reasoning is that (paid) radio show rips would be a much better way for people to hear tunes.
http://www.discogs.com/user/geroyche
the difference to some other genres may be that right now the problem with dubstep actually, more so outside of the uk, is to satisfy the needs and provide the ordered quantities of vinyl.
most releases sell out fast. we could sell way more copies of certain records here.
you don't want a discussion if it's good or bad, you just imply it's mostly bad. well.
i disagree.
and i run a label myself.
you have to come to the understanding that buying a record is more about supporting an artist than 'owning' a release.
hence i for one don't distinguish in treatment of vinyl rips and digital releases.
most people who don't buy the record and just keep the mp3 wouldn't have bought the record anyway. or bought it to be able to hear it, but be dissatisfied with it. not a good customer to have either. likewise people who have out-of-print records on mp3 that they like will be happy to buy re-presses.
especially in a case like soulseek where most rooms really consist of an enthusiast core.
i can only imagine that part of you reasoning is that (paid) radio show rips would be a much better way for people to hear tunes.
http://www.discogs.com/user/geroyche
I fell victim to this.. i realized people were trying to download my dubstep, and i didn't clock what was goin on.. nothing got downloaded anyway, as i keep tabs on traffic.Cogent wrote:people will pay to download a track and just keep them in the same place on their computer as they keep and share all their music.
This werent on SLSK btw.. but im sure its the same for all those kinda clients.
I saw this happening when i 1st entered this scene, and its not going to stop.. there was alot of grime getting ripped, but the grime releases as of late has hindered...ALOT.
Watermarking is a good idea. I'm guna start doing that for tunes in the future.
This subject is a total Catch 22 though...
Origininja
1. Download Coagula: http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Coagula.htm
2. Draw a different image for each person you send your dubs to and convert to a wave file. The wave files usually sound ok, kind of Tipper style fx sweeps..
3. Check the file through your spectral analyzer to make sure it shows up when you play it back.
4. Drop this sample somewhere in your tune where it isnt too noticable but will still be heard if it end up on a mixtape etc. Go back to your spectral analyzer and make sure it still shows up when you play it back.
5. Send out your dubs to everyone you normally would and make a note of which dj got which watermarked tune.
6. Watch your tune appear on soulseek months before release and know exactly who the leaker is.
Safe.
PS. this is pretty much the same thing as the aphex face at the end of Windowlicker: http://www.bastwood.com/aphex.php
2. Draw a different image for each person you send your dubs to and convert to a wave file. The wave files usually sound ok, kind of Tipper style fx sweeps..
3. Check the file through your spectral analyzer to make sure it shows up when you play it back.
4. Drop this sample somewhere in your tune where it isnt too noticable but will still be heard if it end up on a mixtape etc. Go back to your spectral analyzer and make sure it still shows up when you play it back.
5. Send out your dubs to everyone you normally would and make a note of which dj got which watermarked tune.
6. Watch your tune appear on soulseek months before release and know exactly who the leaker is.
Safe.
PS. this is pretty much the same thing as the aphex face at the end of Windowlicker: http://www.bastwood.com/aphex.php
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metalboxproducts
- Posts: 7132
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The artist need to worry about this as well. But as has been said it's a catch 22. And it's not gonna stop.
Close The Door available here vvvvvvvvmagma wrote: I must fellate you instantly."?
http://www.digital-tunes.net/labels/metalbox
http://www.myspace.com/metalboxproducts
every thursday 10-12 gmt
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ufo over easy
- Posts: 4589
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:27 am
Easy Deapoh! met you in Brighton once, hope you're well mate.
I just went into that room and i see a few nicks of people who have messaged me on myspace about my music. Its cool that they're into the tunes, but then its got this weird edge to it if you get me.
I acknowledge that some sharing is almost a certainty now, but were it not for file sharing i would have a lot more time to produce tracks. It would mean more releases, which i would love to do. The way i see it now is that releasing records is a way to get gigs, because that's the only way that i can earn money from this (without selling out to some labels requests). As it is i spend a lot of time working to pay the bills, and thats fine, best not to get too worked up about these things, and doing stuff other than music helps me to stay objective (sort of).
Its often around the time that stuff get sent to press that things start getting shared. Some of my friends (who are much bigger artists than me) find their stuff getting shared well before the release date. I've kind of accepted some degree of sharing but when its long before the release, that winds me up.
Doing vinyl only releases seems to drastically cut the amount of open sharing, but even now i can see the thing i did on Combat which is vinyl only on P2Ps. I have to do CDs for anything other than singles anyway.
I've got a new mp3 to give away on my site soon to promote the next ep. I'd like to think that giving some music out free helps promote sales in some way.... maybe, maybe not haha.
Anyway, nice one Deapoh and all the dubstep heads for feeling strongly about this.
I just went into that room and i see a few nicks of people who have messaged me on myspace about my music. Its cool that they're into the tunes, but then its got this weird edge to it if you get me.
I acknowledge that some sharing is almost a certainty now, but were it not for file sharing i would have a lot more time to produce tracks. It would mean more releases, which i would love to do. The way i see it now is that releasing records is a way to get gigs, because that's the only way that i can earn money from this (without selling out to some labels requests). As it is i spend a lot of time working to pay the bills, and thats fine, best not to get too worked up about these things, and doing stuff other than music helps me to stay objective (sort of).
Its often around the time that stuff get sent to press that things start getting shared. Some of my friends (who are much bigger artists than me) find their stuff getting shared well before the release date. I've kind of accepted some degree of sharing but when its long before the release, that winds me up.
Doing vinyl only releases seems to drastically cut the amount of open sharing, but even now i can see the thing i did on Combat which is vinyl only on P2Ps. I have to do CDs for anything other than singles anyway.
I've got a new mp3 to give away on my site soon to promote the next ep. I'd like to think that giving some music out free helps promote sales in some way.... maybe, maybe not haha.
Anyway, nice one Deapoh and all the dubstep heads for feeling strongly about this.
Last edited by milanese on Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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metalboxproducts
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He needs to be carefull. Hde might get banned....lolUFO over easy wrote:Deapoh wrote:Oh and don't tell me not to post the software name because "It will tell others where to download mp3s"... it's the bloody internet ok? The internets open and anyone can find anything they want if they use their brain a little.
Close The Door available here vvvvvvvvmagma wrote: I must fellate you instantly."?
http://www.digital-tunes.net/labels/metalbox
http://www.myspace.com/metalboxproducts
every thursday 10-12 gmt
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