promoting and selling music in the 21st century

[b&w]

In the 21st century the paradigm that has for ages posited music as a tangible commodity is quickly shifting.

Radiohead offering their new album "In Rainbows" for whatever individuals feel like paying is case in point.

I'm wondering if independent artists (dubstep artists in particular) would benefit from using this same innovative marketing/sales strategy.

File sharing is here to stay. As producers/artists do we fight it or work with it? To me it seems that Radiohead have established a clear precedent for the future of digital music.

It is absolutely certain that we have entered a new era with regard to the marketing and sale of music.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[John Locke]

as well written as r post is, my thoughts and opinions r that u havent really said anything that people on here dont all already know.

and its not like radiohead came up with the idea of selling yr product direct 2 the public either, they just the first world famous artists do it (that might not even b true, but i'm assuming it is and thats why theres such a fuss being made over it).

agree with everything u written, but then i'd also agree with a post that said "deaf people are at a disadvantage when it comes to writing music" - common sense and not a lot to disagree with (tho no doubt some one now probably will).

what do u want us to say that hasnt already been said?

[ozeb]

I would add that NIN going fully independent in the same month is equally as important as the Radiohead "pay what you can" model.

It's good to see the progression being driven by key artists rather than the industry giants... "How do we save our art" vs. "How do we keep making money"

[b&w]

what do u want us to say that hasnt already been said?

You could start by answering some of the questions I raise in my post

[ashley]

Wouldnt people take the piss though and type 0 pence and you will still get alot of muppets using p2p anyways.

I spose either way your gonna make a loss in some aspects right?

[umkhontowesizwe]

Radiohead offering their new album "In Rainbows" for whatever individuals feel like paying is case in point.

surely radiohead's financial position made this more of a realistic option for them though?

[rickyricardo]

I'm wondering if independent artists (dubstep artists in particular) would benefit from using this same innovative marketing/sales strategy.

Doubtful, and here's why:

Radiohead was only able to do what they do b/c they have a fanbase that was cultivated to this point through traditional A&R. They wouldn't have been able to get away w/ such a model if no one had ever heard of them before / been to their concerts / seen their videos. That's the disadvantage most independent artists come from, without having all that major-label weight behind them.

[thinking]

Radiohead offering their new album "In Rainbows" for whatever individuals feel like paying is case in point.

surely radiohead's financial position made this more of a realistic option for them though?

exactly. It's simply not feasible - esp in dubstep where the vast majority of releases are still on vinyl and the margins are quite slim as it is.


Personally, I do agree that p2p/filesharing probably acts as good advertising for artists/labels and their releases, but it is absolutely impossible to quantify any positive/negative effect on sales - for this reason I think it is necessary to take an anti-stance and support the artists & labels.

I do expect that within 5 years the VAST majority of our music consumption will be via digital-only media, but I do not think that is any reason for the music to be free. Artists still have equipment to buy and need to eat.


You may argue that the current business models in the music industry, on both macro (mainstream) and micro (underground) scales, are outdated, but I have yet to see, hear or read about any alternative that is both viable and also superior to the status quo.


Also I must stand up now and say I particularly detest those who share music pre-release. In my mind it is always disrespectful to pass round an artist's work for free with no consideration for their wishes/rights, but to pre-empt their release by stealing their thunder is the lowest of the low, and I challenge anyone who does so and still calls themselves a music-lover.

[richb]

^^ here here!!

[b&w]

Also I must stand up now and say I particularly detest those who share music pre-release. In my mind it is always disrespectful to pass round an artist's work for free with no consideration for their wishes/rights, but to pre-empt their release by stealing their thunder is the lowest of the low, and I challenge anyone who does so and still calls themselves a music-lover.

Hmmmmm, you appear to be letting your personal opinion interfere with basic logic and reality here. Let me illustrate via example. A dubstep friendly radio DJ get an advance promo copy of an upcoming release and plays it on his/her radio program. Fans listening to the radio show record it/download it and share it with peers precisely because they are music lovers. They then get hyped and buy the music when it is officially released and also go see the producer/DJ when they perform locally.

I have been listening to Kode9's mix of the new Burial album on my ipod since MAH played it on her show the other night...guess what...it's getting me stoked to BUY THE MUSIC when it comes out.

Please explain where the "disrespect " part comes in here.

[Jennifer]

Also I must stand up now and say I particularly detest those who share music pre-release. In my mind it is always disrespectful to pass round an artist's work for free with no consideration for their wishes/rights, but to pre-empt their release by stealing their thunder is the lowest of the low, and I challenge anyone who does so and still calls themselves a music-lover.

Hmmmmm, you appear to be letting your personal opinion interfere with basic logic and reality here. Let me illustrate via example. A dubstep friendly radio DJ get an advance promo copy of an upcoming release and plays it on his/her radio program. Fans listening to the radio show record it/download it and share it with peers precisely because they are music lovers. They then get hyped and buy the music when it is officially released and also go see the producer/DJ when they perform locally.

Please explain where the "disrespect " part comes in here.

i thought you saw our side of it last night?? you were clearly wrong

[b&w]

what side of it? y'all just accused me of "taking the piss" without explaining your point. I have posted this new topic in the hopes of promoting a dialogue about the broader subject of what is hurting and what is helping the artists/producers.

A side note...I produce music myself and personally believe it helps me to have my stuff on P2P file sharing networks and free digital downloads...I consistently sell MP3s and hard copies of my music via sites like CD baby and myspace...I think the file sharing actually aides in sustaining that.

[Jennifer]

what side of it? y'all just accused me of "taking the piss" without explaining your point. I have posted this new topic in the hopes of promoting a dialogue about the broader subject of what is hurting and what is helping the artists/producers.

A side note...I produce music myself and personally believe it helps me to have my stuff on P2P file sharing networks and free digital downloads...I consistently sell MP3s of my music via sites like CD baby and myspace...I think the file sharing sustains that.

i explained.
what's the point in having a release date??
the album wasn't rightfully yours. end of fucking story
and to top it all off you come on a forum that discourages illegal downloading, much less illegal downloading of something that hasn't even been released. obtaining a copy of an album before the artist's desired release date is straight up disrespectful.. coming on here to talk about what you did is idiotic and it is "taking the piss".

[selector.dub.u]

Also I must stand up now and say I particularly detest those who share music pre-release. In my mind it is always disrespectful to pass round an artist's work for free with no consideration for their wishes/rights, but to pre-empt their release by stealing their thunder is the lowest of the low, and I challenge anyone who does so and still calls themselves a music-lover.

Hmmmmm, you appear to be letting your personal opinion interfere with basic logic and reality here. Let me illustrate via example. A dubstep friendly radio DJ get an advance promo copy of an upcoming release and plays it on his/her radio program. Fans listening to the radio show record it/download it and share it with peers precisely because they are music lovers. They then get hyped and buy the music when it is officially released and also go see the producer/DJ when they perform locally.

I have been listening to Kode9's mix of the new Burial album on my ipod since MAH played it on her show the other night...guess what...it's getting me stoked to BUY THE MUSIC when it comes out.

Please explain where the "disrespect " part comes in here.

your analogy is false in this case- i.e.. comparing apples to oranges.

[b&w]

Jennifer, I'm trying to have a civilized conversation in a legitimate thread. You're letting your emotions get the better of you and are not even speaking to the bigger issues I am raising here.

I can appreciate your position with regard to the specifics of yesterday's post, however I am trying to engage people in a real dialogue here.

All I am saying is, if advanced sharing helps spread the word and buzz about a new release how is that disrespectful?

If all you want to do is yell at me, please don't bother responding.

[Jennifer]

Jennifer, I'm trying to have a civilized conversation in a legitimate thread. You're letting your emotions get the better of you and are not even speaking to the bigger issues I am raising here.

I can appreciate your position with regard to the specifics of yesterday's post, however I am trying to engage people in a real dialogue here.

All I am saying is, if advanced sharing helps spread the word and buzz about a new release how is that disrespectful?

If all you want to do is yell at me, please don't bother responding.

I am not letting my emotions get the better of me, but you're not really making so much sense.
Sure, sharing can be great.. Doing what radiohead did can be great.. but ultimately that is up to the producer as to whether they'd like to share their material or not. I understand that one way or another it all ends up on the net anyway, but downloading an album that you know is unreleased is plain wrong. downloading something you know an artist didn't put on the net is wrong, too.


An artists may or may not benefit from it.. reality is, they don't make a fortune as it's going right now. I don't believe people are honest enough to pay for what they're getting all the time.

p.s. it's impossible to yell with my keyboard

[seckle]

Also I must stand up now and say I particularly detest those who share music pre-release. In my mind it is always disrespectful to pass round an artist's work for free with no consideration for their wishes/rights, but to pre-empt their release by stealing their thunder is the lowest of the low, and I challenge anyone who does so and still calls themselves a music-lover.

Hmmmmm, you appear to be letting your personal opinion interfere with basic logic and reality here. Let me illustrate via example. A dubstep friendly radio DJ get an advance promo copy of an upcoming release and plays it on his/her radio program. Fans listening to the radio show record it/download it and share it with peers precisely because they are music lovers. They then get hyped and buy the music when it is officially released and also go see the producer/DJ when they perform locally.

I have been listening to Kode9's mix of the new Burial album on my ipod since MAH played it on her show the other night...guess what...it's getting me stoked to BUY THE MUSIC when it comes out.

Please explain where the "disrespect " part comes in here.

Who are you kidding? I think the forum knows how the Radio Promo system works.

If you really buy the music after downloading it illegally, why are you telling the forum about it? Seems a bit odd that one.

This "entitlement" attitude to the music; based on some notion that you're supporting the scene in other ways is completely selfish. A promotional/advance release is a courtesy. So courtesy demands courtesy in return, otherwise it's not helping anyone.

None of the Dubstep labels in this scene are anywhere near the situation that Radiohead is in, so the case you're trying to present just does not apply to underground music. There's not even 1/4 of the fan base in dubstep , that can compare to alternative and rock music .

The fact of the matter is, this scene is made up of people that support the system, because the system needs every little bit of help possible. People are making little or no profit on these releases. In fact 75% of the labels putting out music in this scene operate at straight losses.

It's a scene supported and driven by a love for the music, and everything else is secondary. By telling us not to get upset about people taking liberties, is even more offensive than actually showing your support via the forum.

Support the machinery that produces the music; because if you don't then you're taking it for granted.

[b&w]

I am not letting my emotions get the better of me, but you're not really making so much sense.
Sure, sharing can be great.. Doing what radiohead did can be great.. but ultimately that is up to the producer as to whether they'd like to share their material or not. I understand that one way or another it all ends up on the net anyway, but downloading an album that you know is unreleased is plain wrong. downloading something you know an artist didn't put on the net is wrong, too.


An artists may or may not benefit from it.. reality is, they don't make a fortune as it's going right now. I don't believe people are honest enough to pay for what they're getting all the time.

p.s. it's impossible to yell with my keyboard

I'm making perfect sense. If you could prove to me that sharing an artists music ahead of a "release date" hurts said artists I would shut my mouth immediately. Problem is you can't. And I'll bet you even wonder if it possibly helps the artist.

I'm curious Jennifer, do you produce music?

[Jennifer]

Also I must stand up now and say I particularly detest those who share music pre-release. In my mind it is always disrespectful to pass round an artist's work for free with no consideration for their wishes/rights, but to pre-empt their release by stealing their thunder is the lowest of the low, and I challenge anyone who does so and still calls themselves a music-lover.

Hmmmmm, you appear to be letting your personal opinion interfere with basic logic and reality here. Let me illustrate via example. A dubstep friendly radio DJ get an advance promo copy of an upcoming release and plays it on his/her radio program. Fans listening to the radio show record it/download it and share it with peers precisely because they are music lovers. They then get hyped and buy the music when it is officially released and also go see the producer/DJ when they perform locally.

I have been listening to Kode9's mix of the new Burial album on my ipod since MAH played it on her show the other night...guess what...it's getting me stoked to BUY THE MUSIC when it comes out.

Please explain where the "disrespect " part comes in here.

Who are you kidding? I think the forum knows how the Radio Promo system works.

If you really buy the music after downloading it illegally, why are you telling the forum about it? Seems a bit odd that one.

This "entitlement" attitude to the music; based on some notion that you're supporting the scene in other ways is completely selfish. A promotional/advance release is a courtesy. So courtesy demands courtesy in return, otherwise it's not helping anyone.

None of the Dubstep labels in this scene are anywhere near the situation that Radiohead is in, so the case you're trying to present just does not apply to underground music. There's not even 1/4 of the fan base in dubstep , that can compare to alternative and rock music .

The fact of the matter is, this scene is made up of people that support the system, because the system needs every little bit of help possible. People are making little or no profit on these releases. In fact 75% of the labels putting out music in this scene operate at straight losses.

It's a scene supported and driven by a love for the music, and everything else is secondary. By telling us not to get upset about people taking liberties, is even more offensive than actually showing your support via the forum.

Support the machinery that produces the music; because if you don't then you're taking it for granted.

[b&w]

Who are you kidding? I think the forum knows how the Radio Promo system works.

If you really buy the music after downloading it illegally, why are you telling the forum about it? Seems a bit odd that one.

This "entitlement" attitude to the music; based on some notion that you're supporting the scene in other ways is completely selfish. A promotional/advance release is a courtesy. So courtesy demands courtesy in return, otherwise it's not helping anyone.

None of the Dubstep labels in this scene are anywhere near the situation that Radiohead is in, so the case you're trying to present just does not apply to underground music. There's not even 1/4 of the fan base in dubstep , that can compare to alternative and rock music .

The fact of the matter is, this scene is made up of people that support the system, because the system needs every little bit of help possible. People are making little or no profit on these releases. In fact 75% of the labels putting out music in this scene operate at straight losses.

It's a scene supported and driven by a love for the music, and everything else is secondary. By telling us not to get upset about people taking liberties, is even more offensive than actually showing your support via the forum.

Support the machinery that produces the music; because if you don't then you're taking it for granted.

You're working from a myopic vantage point I'm afraid...thinking too concretely about this. I have turned many friends of mine onto dubstep via DJ mixes I have made and then given them. They in turn buy releases by the artists they like and support local dubstep club nights. What price are you going to put on that?