Guardian Article - Completely misses the point

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thinking
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Post by thinking » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:51 pm

jackquinox wrote:I dont understand why anyone that has signed a grime artists and promotes a grime night would be so disrespectful of a music genre with such crossover potential. As far as albums are concerned what about various production and boxcutter, not necesarily completely dubstep but still great artist albums.

The various prodcution album has tracks that have been used by both dubstep and grime dj's and mc's, didnt wiley do a thing over the top of "hater" jme over "tapped" whys this guy putting dirt on a scene so close to home.
and raising the issue of violence @ FWD "unfounded or not". What a weapon.
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Post by ramadanman » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:58 pm

i read in one of this guy's other articles something about this journalist getting beaten up at FWD?

is this true? and if so what happened?

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Post by memes » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:05 pm

Ouch.

Ok so I'll run the risk of a reply - I'm Jamie, BTW.

I haven't read all of the replies here because it doesn't make easy reading, obivously. Firstly I would say that I categorically didn't write this to further any interests in terms of grime or labels. I wrote about this because it was something I was thinking about and i'm interested in. I see writing as a separate activity to anything else I do, which I'm now seeing as naiive, for obvious reasons. It's fine when you're being positive, but not in this case, patently.

In my defence, I've taken an active interest in Dubstep and done my best to promote the several records and acts I think are really good. I've booked Kode 9, Digital Mystikz, Youngsta, Plastician and Wonder. I've played DMZ on Kiss FM on a guest slot, and I've reviewed the excellent 12"s by several of the above. And the excellent Wonder album actually, which has been relatively overlooked by the press as far as I can tell.

In this piece I was arguing mainly that so far there hasn't been a successful transition from the 12" culture, which admittedly, as some of the replies here state, is arguably the true culture. I'd stand by that point to be honest, I really wanted to enjoy the albums I mentioned but I just didn't think they were all that they could have been.

The reference to violence was the argument between a magazine and a grime crew, which I understood to be the reason that non-booked MCs were stopped from performing at FWD. I may be wrong, of course, but I made the reference in good faith.

The tagline about 'days being numbered' weren't mine, there's an editorial process on the Guardian blog, and they can obviously add their own taglines.

The reference to trip-hop was probably slightly unsophisticted. In 450 words, to lean on the oldest defence available, it's hard to be as incisive as you want to be. I do feel that there is a relevance to the comparison in the way that mainstream DJs and journalists have received the records, rather than in the way the records have been made. I truly believe that for some people, grime is a bit too much, and dubstep has neatly provided a related genre that solves this problem. I am NOT suggesting that dubstep artists make their music for the same reasons.

All this said, in retrospect I think it might have been a better idea to emphasise the positive as much as the negative. I do indeed think that Youngsta and DMZ are brilliant, both sets at my night were two of the highlights of the whole 2 years. I'm aware that it's hard enough in the UK to gain the exposure that artists deserve, and I wasn't helping with this piece. I wanted to provide a counterpoint to some of the hype, which at times I do think has been excessive, but I'll happily admit that my blog, like all opinion pieces, is open to argument.

So, er... yes. I guess that answers some of it, though probably not enough for many of you here. I'm sure I'll be getting it in the neck for a while yet, so my penance awaits me.

Jamie

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Post by boomnoise » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:13 pm

Thanks for posting that Jamie.

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Post by blackdown » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:13 pm

That's a considered response. Why the hell didn't you chose to take that approach when you were in a position of international influence on The Guardian blog?
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Post by titchyschneider » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:16 pm

dont take all the comments to heart
the trip hop comment was pretty spot on in many instances
and most dubstep albums have been a bit underwhelming (although i dunno how you could hate burial!)
but then its dance music and most dance albums are shit sadly
even grime albums have been crap for the most part (except dizzee)
your other blog was better
and its good to get another side to all the blissfull coverage of dubstep in the media, definitely
makes a change
you cant please people all the time

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Post by titchyschneider » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:21 pm

Blackdown wrote:That's a considered response. Why the hell didn't you chose to take that approach when you were in a position of international influence on The Guardian blog?
cos blogs = opinion pieces
all blogs give the writer a position of international influence

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Post by fullyrecordingz » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:00 pm

your article let me down man. it was really missing that "wow-factor" that I expect from the Guardian, yknow?

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Post by pete_bubonic » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:05 pm

Sound for the answer Jamie, it's nice to see you do know what it is you're talking about. I was disappointed with the article myself, it was a little too subjective, but then I didn't view in the form of a blog, which in my book means roll out the personal feelings on things. So fair play.

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Post by elgato » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:39 pm

i thoroughly rate your response

but echo Blackdown's sentiment, places like that carry weight and reach a wide audience, so its a responsibility in my opinion

i think the title was key, it set the tone for the whole thing, everything else was interpreted in the light of that

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Post by autonomic » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:37 pm

ramadanman wrote:i read in one of this guy's other articles something about this journalist getting beaten up at FWD?

is this true? and if so what happened?
there was a brief altercation down the block from PP after FWD last year. it was apparently an isolated thing that didn't start inside and nothing came from it. so people wisely chose not to make anything more of it.

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Post by boomnoise » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:54 pm

autonomic wrote:
ramadanman wrote:i read in one of this guy's other articles something about this journalist getting beaten up at FWD?

is this true? and if so what happened?
there was a brief altercation down the block from PP after FWD last year. it was apparently an isolated thing that didn't start inside and nothing came from it. so people wisely chose not to make anything more of it.
it was such a minor i'd totally forgotten about it until just now

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Post by selector.dub.u » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:01 pm

Memes wrote:Ouch.

Ok so I'll run the risk of a reply - I'm Jamie, BTW.

I haven't read all of the replies here because it doesn't make easy reading, obivously. Firstly I would say that I categorically didn't write this to further any interests in terms of grime or labels. I wrote about this because it was something I was thinking about and i'm interested in. I see writing as a separate activity to anything else I do, which I'm now seeing as naiive, for obvious reasons. It's fine when you're being positive, but not in this case, patently.

In my defence, I've taken an active interest in Dubstep and done my best to promote the several records and acts I think are really good. I've booked Kode 9, Digital Mystikz, Youngsta, Plastician and Wonder. I've played DMZ on Kiss FM on a guest slot, and I've reviewed the excellent 12"s by several of the above. And the excellent Wonder album actually, which has been relatively overlooked by the press as far as I can tell.

In this piece I was arguing mainly that so far there hasn't been a successful transition from the 12" culture, which admittedly, as some of the replies here state, is arguably the true culture. I'd stand by that point to be honest, I really wanted to enjoy the albums I mentioned but I just didn't think they were all that they could have been.

The reference to violence was the argument between a magazine and a grime crew, which I understood to be the reason that non-booked MCs were stopped from performing at FWD. I may be wrong, of course, but I made the reference in good faith.

The tagline about 'days being numbered' weren't mine, there's an editorial process on the Guardian blog, and they can obviously add their own taglines.

The reference to trip-hop was probably slightly unsophisticted. In 450 words, to lean on the oldest defence available, it's hard to be as incisive as you want to be. I do feel that there is a relevance to the comparison in the way that mainstream DJs and journalists have received the records, rather than in the way the records have been made. I truly believe that for some people, grime is a bit too much, and dubstep has neatly provided a related genre that solves this problem. I am NOT suggesting that dubstep artists make their music for the same reasons.

All this said, in retrospect I think it might have been a better idea to emphasise the positive as much as the negative. I do indeed think that Youngsta and DMZ are brilliant, both sets at my night were two of the highlights of the whole 2 years. I'm aware that it's hard enough in the UK to gain the exposure that artists deserve, and I wasn't helping with this piece. I wanted to provide a counterpoint to some of the hype, which at times I do think has been excessive, but I'll happily admit that my blog, like all opinion pieces, is open to argument.

So, er... yes. I guess that answers some of it, though probably not enough for many of you here. I'm sure I'll be getting it in the neck for a while yet, so my penance awaits me.

Jamie



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Post by ozeb » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:10 pm

Memes wrote:The tagline about 'days being numbered' weren't mine, there's an editorial process on the Guardian blog, and they can obviously add their own taglines.
That's exactly the tone the editor at the San Francisco Weekly chose to emphasize when they ran a piece over here. I am not sure if they were going for drama or that was their actual belief.

Respect to you for responding in the forum - I better understand your position now when writing the initial piece.

A couple of things:

1. A shift from DJ to Album / Club to Home Listening music - it strikes me that the barriers to this happening are much higher than in grime as the cardinal rule of core sub-base frequencies are below those that most home or car systems are even capable of reproducing.

2. Regarding blog vs. article - understandably, a blog should be taken as a more loosely represented personal position but the moment you wrap the "journal entry" into a strong brand, it is assumed that the brand supports the opinion and therefore represents the position. If the Guardian truly wanted to distance the "blog" element from their actual reported work then they should disclaim association. Otherwise, the fact that their logo is in the upper left corner acts as an endorsement.

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Post by ozeb » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:12 pm

dammit warren - thanks.

now my response is comfortably nested beneath the ball sack of some thugged out nudist weightlifter.

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Post by selector.dub.u » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:14 pm

ozeb wrote:dammit warren - thanks.

now my response is comfortably nested beneath the ball sack of some thugged out nudist weightlifter.
LOL

sorry
Ozeb.

Good response!
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Post by parson » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:49 pm

ozeb wrote: 1. A shift from DJ to Album / Club to Home Listening music - it strikes me that the barriers to this happening are much higher than in grime as the cardinal rule of core sub-base frequencies are below those that most home or car systems are even capable of reproducing.
when people ask me what kind of music i make i tell them i make very bass heavy music that is pointless to listen to unless you can feel it.

it would be really nice if it would work as an album but fact is most people don't go home and listen to their albums full volume with subs cranked, and if thats case i'd prefer they not listen.

it would be like looking at a painting with dark sunglasses on
no point

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Post by etidorhpa » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:56 pm

That dude's blatantly just playin devils advocate to all the recent hype....someone's gotta do it, all part and parcel of the media machine.

Bollocks to him, you've made yer quick buck now fuck off back to your medical journals. :)

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Post by optimum » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:00 pm

I came out with the term 'grime scene investigation' time ago, circa2005

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Post by hopper » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:13 am

Hmm, that was a really good measured response. Quite interesting how he said dubstep is a sort of genre for people that think Grime is too much, thats quite a good description for how I feel about dubstep. Admittedly I've got shite knowledge of grime, but I just find it too macho and (somtimes) agressive for my liking, but dubstep seems to tick all the right boxes. As for big dada, the criticisms on here are harsh! The cLOUDDEAD album is one of my favourite things of all time, and diplo is also a solid artist to have on a roster... But interesting thread this one
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