ANTI-WAR DUB - IN THE STREETS

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westernsynthetics
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Post by westernsynthetics » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:48 am

metalboxproducts wrote:
westernsynthetics wrote:well the whole point of making this video was to intice discussion and mobilise people for the upcoming APEC protest here in Australia.

hence I am bumping this...again.

And Metalboxproducts I couldnt let you get away with this one:

Metalbox said:
"To pull out know would be a gross derilction of our responsiblity's/morals."

To invade in the first place was a gross deriliction of our morals.

I am so fed up with this notion that the Iraq people are so fucked up and crazy that its America's responsibility to civilise them and that sending in drones with macine guns and tanks is somehow going to save Iraqis from annilalation. Lets not forget that the the Mesopotamians were one of the oldest civilisations in human history so i think the Iraqis know a thing or two about culture and civilisation. America on the other hand is the new Rome. Everywhere in the world you find US troops you find destruction, violence and imperialism.
I agree with the notion that we should have not gone in there in the first place. I just think now we have gone in, to pull out now would be well out of order.

I am so fed up with this notion that the Iraq people are so fucked up and crazy that its America's responsibility to civilise them and that sending in drones with macine guns and tanks is somehow going to save Iraqis from annilalation.

Who said this?
Are you refering to the notion that if America does not occupy Iraq then Iraq will annilalate itself?

If so, this is the main argument of supproters of the occupation. They all say this. However, granted you did not say this directly. So my question is: As a supporter of the occupation do you agree with this assesment? That Iraq will self destruct without Team America saving the day?

If not then why are you supporting the occupation?

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Post by metalboxproducts » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:30 am

It's not as black and white as this though, is it? I didn't support the initial war nor do i support the continued occupation. But, to think that leaving the country now is the better of two evils is a little simplistic. Due to the occupation, most of the country's infrostucture has been destroyed, tribal/comuntity differences have been inflamed. You have various pollitical factions fighting (with extreme violence) for power. The list goes on. If you look at similar events in recent history ie the last hundred years. The evidence suggest that the situation will get a lot worse. I'm thinking the occupation of Vietnam and the subsequent rapid withdrawl giving rise to the Kamar Rouge and the killing fields. Also if we leave now what will the people do with out a police force who are adiquitly trained to police a country that is ridden with crime. Where are all the medical workers going to come from to work in the non exsitant hispitals?
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metalboxproducts
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Post by metalboxproducts » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:37 am

Oh yeah btw Mesoptomia was a region and never a counrty with clearly difined bourders. Iraq was created when Britain partitioned the region and stuck a load of disparate comuntity's together. It's a bit like saying Europe when you mean France.
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Post by masstronaut » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:43 am

Midnight Request Line is a bit boring isn't it?

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war crimes a modern way of life

Post by rykastarn » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:45 am

my hat if i wore one off to ya

one love

very well put together

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westernsynthetics
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Post by westernsynthetics » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:24 am

Acually, it is Black and White.

Its very simple: racist imperialism and the pursuit of profit is the only motivation for both our coutntries (US & Australia) to "stay the course" not health care, hospitals or infrastructure.

If the allied forces gave a shit about hostipals, infrastructure and the well being of Iraqi's they would realise that bombing the shit out of the place is probably not going to do much for infrastructure. You are kidding yourself if you think that your maniac president gives a fuck about the wellbeing of Iraqi's. All he cares about is securing the Iraqi oil feilds for his big buisness backers.

Our own defence minister here in australia recently admitted that the war in Iraq is to secure strategic oil feilds...this is all the imperialists care about:

"The defence update we're releasing today sets out many priorities for Australia's defence and security - and resource security is one of them," he said.

"Obviously the Middle East itself, not only Iraq, but the entire region is an important supplier of energy, oil in particular, to the rest of the world." - Defence Minister Brendan Nelson

As for nit picking about my Mesopetamia comment...Culture, History & Civilisation is not lost when you lay national borders.

And the Kamer Rouge was in Cambodia...the US withdrawl from Vietnam did not give rise to them...if anything Pol Pot would have been a likely ally against the Commuinsts...How the hell can you rely on your own govenment to stant up against oppressive regimes? They established most of them! The Taliban, Pinoche in Chile, Kasakstan, Saddam in Iraq, Pakistan...the list goes on...

It was the Vietnamese who did the most to help defeat the Kamer Rouge..not the US.

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Post by dustrickx » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:39 am

it's not the anti war dub tune is it?
love it though
step da dub sub, dance da bellybeats and break the heart core=> http://www.myspace.com/dustrickx
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westernsynthetics
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Post by westernsynthetics » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:20 am

its anti war dub, but not the famous choon called "anti war dub" you are referring to..

Glad you peeps like it 8)

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Post by d-nile » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:39 am

This is one of the most interesting threads I have read so far on the forum - more of this please. Makes a change from 50 million 'this tunes sick' posts..

I am not clued up to offer an opinion about the Iraq situation but I am enjoying reading the civilised debate.

If anyone is finding it a bit hardgoing - maybe the mods could move it to a different forum so it doesn't dilute things too much. lol :D

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Post by linedamage » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:59 am

Sorry, but what is the actual name of the tune on this vid & who's it by???

I was playing some Sunn on Itunes as it ran, the drums sounded chuffing fat on top of the death-drone.

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westernsynthetics
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Post by westernsynthetics » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:33 am

linedamage wrote:Sorry, but what is the actual name of the tune on this vid & who's it by???

I was playing some Sunn on Itunes as it ran, the drums sounded chuffing fat on top of the death-drone.
its my choon...its called Lunch With The Prime Minister.

Its an old choon i did a while ago...its pretty intense so I dont usually play it a gigs very often...but mabye I might start given the intrest it has attracted thru this video 8)

Again thanks for the props...and also props to Metalbox for being a good sport..its nice to have a spirited debate without agro :)

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Post by metalboxproducts » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:58 am

I'm not American. It's too early for this. i've just woken up. I'll post my reply latter. :D
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westernsynthetics
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Post by westernsynthetics » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:32 am

sorry mate! thought you were American for some reason....:?

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Post by the pest » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:54 am

edit.

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Post by metalboxproducts » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:56 am

I'm pretty sure i gave you my address a while back and i'm almost certain it was London Uk. :lol:
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necta selecta
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Post by necta selecta » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:45 am

Anyone who thinks the troops in iraq are there to in any way help the locals should watch this - a GI speaking out about iraq.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... &plindex=4

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Post by metalboxproducts » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:06 am

necta selecta wrote:Anyone who thinks the troops in iraq are there to in any way help the locals should watch this - a GI speaking out about iraq.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... &plindex=4
I'm not labouring under any delusion that we are there for any other reason then to secure oil. Never have been never will be. What i'm saying is that we have a responsabilty to mend what we've fucked up. Wether this happens is a different question entirely.

Gotta love the knee jurk reactions. :lol:

Can some one explain to me what they think will happen if and when we pull out?

1, The secterian killing stops and every one starts hugging each other and building a new country hand in hand, arm in arm. Brother next to brother.

2, The various country's supporting the factions stop supplying them with weapons now the americans have gone.

3,The country is miraculously transformed to the condition it was in pre invasion.

Or?
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necta selecta
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Post by necta selecta » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:17 pm

metalbox wrote
I'm not labouring under any delusion that we are there for any other reason then to secure oil. Never have been never will be. What i'm saying is that we have a responsabilty to mend what we've fucked up. Wether this happens is a different question entirely.
The video i posted was nothing to do with oil, more how the overall (military) mission on the ground is to strike fear into iraqis. There are many other reasons than oil for them being there -this is worth a watch, esp the stuff about abu graib:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... &plindex=4

but lets assume it is just oil - how then could the same troups who've spent the last few years securing an oil supply killing, raping and torturing along the way to suddenly switch roles and "mend what we've fucked up" as you say? And presumably the iraqis will then just realise the plan had change and start instantly trusting the invaders?

Btw not really a "knee jurk reaction" or particularly aimed at you - just what i think :D

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Post by mongrel » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:50 pm

computer rock wrote: most of those protesters are demanding a withdrawl of troops, which is definitely not going to solve the current problem there. .
how come?

a war is over when you ..stop it

how is the withdrawal gonna NOT solve this war problem?

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Post by metalboxproducts » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:54 pm

necta selecta wrote:metalbox wrote
I'm not labouring under any delusion that we are there for any other reason then to secure oil. Never have been never will be. What i'm saying is that we have a responsabilty to mend what we've fucked up. Wether this happens is a different question entirely.
The video i posted was nothing to do with oil, more how the overall (military) mission on the ground is to strike fear into iraqis. There are many other reasons than oil for them being there -this is worth a watch, esp the stuff about abu graib:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... &plindex=4

but lets assume it is just oil - how then could the same troups who've spent the last few years securing an oil supply killing, raping and torturing along the way to suddenly switch roles and "mend what we've fucked up" as you say? And presumably the iraqis will then just realise the plan had change and start instantly trusting the invaders?

Btw not really a "knee jurk reaction" or particularly aimed at you - just what i think :D
Well this is kind of what i'm asking. How the hell is it going to be sorted out. Could it be a non millitary occupation. UN for instance. The counrty needs a lot of economic aid. My point, and this is something that i should have really brought up before as it would have avoided a lot of misunderstanding, is this. Once the troops pull out (which they should). Whats going to happen? And who's going to help them rebuild they're coubtry? I just think pulling out full stop is counter productive. I don't see how simply pulling troops out is going to sort out the bigger problems but, having said that they shouldn't be there.
All i'm reading is troops = bad. Pull out = good. And nothing beyond that. I'm not hearing any viable alternatives.


Oh btw you should read this.
http://www.lucifereffect.com/

Here's the review from the guardian.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/s ... 21,00.html
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