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Dubstep becoming too dark and masculine?

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Postby quietmouse » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:57 am

Blackdown wrote: And having seen d&b ruined by some of the same problems, "all that matters" is that the scene regains some of the ballance it needs right now.


Are you saying this specifically in regards to the "dark and masculine" banger tracks that keep coming out (as in, you want more tracks from other parts of the spectrum played in sets)? Or are you getting at something deeper here in the scene?

This thread's getting a little hard to follow..
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Postby jolly wailer » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:59 am

funny how cockney thug went from being a totally anticipated release to a "one-song parody of itself" in a matter of a month... well thats the impression one would get from a thread like this... I'm feeling rusko's quirky brand of banger... his dubs are ridiculous too.. no reason to hate on what this man is doing at all... ill shit all around even if the dubstep community tires of a banger within a month...

I dont really find the dub police sound aggressive at all - its sort of like carnival-esque bangout... I def feel it quite a bit - the concept of wonkiness is a good frame of reference for it.... definitly has its place..

and damn the semantics debate is a little tortuous to read through... everyones concepts are different..

for me:

a dark tune would = 'blood on my hands' or 'fallen' .. not necessarily aggressive tunes...

as far as masculine dubstep goes I dont have much of a comment - its all subjective - theres room for all tastes but I really haven't been witness to any tunes that were overly neandrathalic


and damn... when people talk about meditating on bass weight they don't mean doing fucking yoga on the dancefloor or cleansing the dancehall with lavender sage incense before a set... meditation in the sense that the herb is good for meditation - proper zone out material - true heads like mala know what this kind of meditation means... bass is maternal
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Postby vonboyage » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:43 am

The Wiggle Baron wrote:Me --> :I: <-- That tune (not mala...) ,Okay, maybe mala...a little bit


I hear that :P

Dem dark mysterious low enders are what i get up for in the morning.

Although, i must applaud Conquest/Silkie on blatent diversity when it comes to producing the opposite.

Love dem ASE beats.
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Postby entheogen » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:48 am

Tracks like Cockney Thug put a smile on my face. That's the only validation I need.
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Postby elgato » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:57 am

Blackdown wrote:
Misk wrote:Its not our job to try and control it. Its not our job to "keep it underground". We participate in the glory of this music we've all come together for because we love it. and thats all that matters.


To be honest, this kind of hippy shit will get you nowhere. Dubstep was build by people who actually went out and built what could be, not sat back and basked in the glory of what already was. Lots of times recently I've been out and seen sets and I dont "love it". And having seen d&b ruined by some of the same problems, "all that matters" is that the scene regains some of the ballance it needs right now.


writing about these things in the places you do is one thing, given the visibility of it, but whinging on the forum cant qualify as doing something. thats what gets to me i suppose (although i have been very much guilty of it!), that people seem to feel like they're really making a difference by complaining on here. why bother?

also the idea, inherent in much of this discussion, that one's own vision of the scene is any 'better' than anyone elses, doesn't agree with me

and is there not a point at which its just a bit inappropriate to try to tell a producer what they should or shouldnt be doing? people chatting like they owe us something...
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Postby ossia » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:02 am

fuck taking dubstep in one direction or the other...thats what i like about it - its still open....but to be honest if i think of dubstep i think of dirty basslines that sound dark, make me screw my face with happiness...dark is nice - cos u can vent ur anger rather than goin to the park and fighting it out, like some one said in the second comment or so....but yeah. each their own!!!
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Postby virus human race » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:33 am

Misk wrote:Theres room for everyone here, and as claw said, to each his/her own. I think that the dubstep sound has shifted recently, but who cares? This is a message board, thus, this discussion, but if you dont feel the music thats out, then go out and make something you feel. with any luck someone else will feel it too, and then you can define a new sound that is more in line with what you feel dubstep "should" be.

i mean really, this is music, its not something you can own. I dont believe that anyone, not even the mala, and loefah, and horsepower productions "own" dubstep. thats kind of the beauty of it. some people gave birth to it, and its grown beyond the individuals that craft it, and become it's own entity, autonomous in it's own right.

Its not our job to try and control it. Its not our job to "keep it underground". We participate in the glory of this music we've all come together for because we love it. and thats all that matters.

:wink:


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Postby shonky » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:41 am

Blackdown wrote:
Misk wrote:Its not our job to try and control it. Its not our job to "keep it underground". We participate in the glory of this music we've all come together for because we love it. and thats all that matters.


To be honest, this kind of hippy shit will get you nowhere. Dubstep was build by people who actually went out and built what could be, not sat back and basked in the glory of what already was. Lots of times recently I've been out and seen sets and I dont "love it". And having seen d&b ruined by some of the same problems, "all that matters" is that the scene regains some of the ballance it needs right now.


I get the feelin that one of the problems with dnb was that as it went on, more of the producers were only influenced by other dnb artists. That seems to be the problem with dubstep now, that a lot of the people creating seem to only really be referencing other dubstep tracks rather than adding in previous influences and it's getting a bit insular and incestuous.

I've gotta say though that I love Cockney Thug cause it's a tune I could drop in a set to a non-dubstep crowd and they'd go mad for it (which wouldn't happen for a lot of the slow bangers). Good to hear a bit of humour and fun coming into the music.
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Postby blackdown » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:50 am

elgato wrote:
Blackdown wrote:
Misk wrote:Its not our job to try and control it. Its not our job to "keep it underground". We participate in the glory of this music we've all come together for because we love it. and thats all that matters.


To be honest, this kind of hippy shit will get you nowhere. Dubstep was build by people who actually went out and built what could be, not sat back and basked in the glory of what already was. Lots of times recently I've been out and seen sets and I dont "love it". And having seen d&b ruined by some of the same problems, "all that matters" is that the scene regains some of the ballance it needs right now.


writing about these things in the places you do is one thing, given the visibility of it, but whinging on the forum cant qualify as doing something. thats what gets to me i suppose (although i have been very much guilty of it!), that people seem to feel like they're really making a difference by complaining on here. why bother?

also the idea, inherent in much of this discussion, that one's own vision of the scene is any 'better' than anyone elses, doesn't agree with me

and is there not a point at which its just a bit inappropriate to try to tell a producer what they should or shouldnt be doing? people chatting like they owe us something...



1. Why bother? since when has discussion about the direction of a community in an open way been not 'doing something?' It's the central pillar of democracy!

2. And as for really, 'doing things', I'm focusing on production this year, have been since autumn 06.
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Postby toxin » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:59 am

zap pow wrote:
Blackdown wrote:We've seen this cycle before with jungle/d&b and we simply can't make the same mistakes again.


You wouldn't support the suggestions re: mixing of dubstep and heavy metal then? :wink:


Listen to Lone Wolf/Distance/Bloodied Blade. All have elements of metal in some of their beats.
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Postby elgato » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:46 am

Blackdown wrote:1. Why bother? since when has discussion about the direction of a community in an open way been not 'doing something?' It's the central pillar of democracy!


I dunno I find this quite difficult. Currently I'm very ill at ease with the idea of people's tastes being affected by any strain of thought which imposes any sense of authority/authenticity/objectivity. I like the idea of people embracing the things that I do about music, but I hate the idea that they're doing so because they feel they 'ought' to. Further, to use a political analogy, maybe i feel there are too many placards and slogans, and that theres perhaps not enough depth to discussion (i wouldnt say that about your writing though).

Regarding democracy in dubstep(!) and music more generally, to what extent do you really want producers to be subject to the desires of the people? I would not wish for any producer to be constrained by their ideas of what people want, nor what they should or shouldnt be doing

Blackdown wrote:2. And as for really, 'doing things', I'm focusing on production this year, have been since autumn 06.


I didnt mean for my post to come off like I was questioning you personally, I'm really sorry it seemed that way. As a more general point theres no-one in particular I'm aiming this at, its based on a general feeling I get
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Postby corpsey » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:00 pm

Some of the tunes now considered ''leftfield'' in dubstep wouldn't have been considered leftfield even a year or so ago.
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Postby blackdown » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:04 pm

elgato wrote:Regarding democracy in dubstep(!) and music more generally, to what extent do you really want producers to be subject to the desires of the people? I would not wish for any producer to be constrained by their ideas of what people want, nor what they should or shouldnt be doing


this is exactly what i'm pushing against bro: in 2007 too many dubstep DJs are afraid not to smash it with every dub, so much so they daren't play the odd slower/deeper/percussive/swung/vocal tune (anything but hard wobble basically). Even something like "Skeng" sounds "different" these days.
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Postby elgato » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:11 pm

but in pushing for change through public pressure are you not just advocating the same process albeit with a different interest being served? you like it deep, they like it banging...

i know its not as black and white as that, but thats the issue i find hard to resolve

maybe theres something to be said for the idea of balance. but even then is it not just subjective preference again?
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Postby spherix » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:15 pm

i didnt read all the pages in this thread coz i couldnt be arsed to be frank, but i am pretty sick of the assumption that dark = heavy as hell distorted shit

tunes can be dark and deep and mellow at the same time, even half girly

emotion in a tune to me is dark, it neednt be a "banger" or whatever

dunno where im goin with this but i was thinkin after the first page "plz dont confuse heavy with dark"

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Postby blackdown » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:17 pm

elgato wrote:maybe theres something to be said for the idea of balance. but even then is it not just subjective preference again?


ballance is fine, it'd be great, but we're nowhere near that...
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Postby elgato » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:21 pm

i agree absolutely, and i would prefer balance, but for me, thats not the point...
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Postby blackdown » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:27 pm

principles are fine, but in practice, dubstep needs to redress its ballance - and the latter is far more important than the former right now.
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Postby blackdown » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:31 pm

elgato wrote: you like it deep, they like it banging...


that is an innacurate simplification. i love dark dubstep: Skeng, Mud, ASBO1, 50k Watts - they're amazing tunes. And i love really aggressive tunes: Tempa T on the Stageshow Riddim: can you get any more aggressive than that? It's just that going out recently you mostly get the impression dubstep has only one style...
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Postby corpsey » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:35 pm

First DMZ I went to was wicked because it went all over the place- Kode, Digis, Skream, Plastician- all different sets.

Actually haven't been to a rave in a while but I get the impression that diversity's been lost a bit.
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