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thinking
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Post by thinking » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:03 pm

Quietmouse wrote:Dubstep wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for file-sharing. The global community would be much, much smaller. There's an audience for this music now outside of the raves which many dubstep fans don't have the chance to go to. I think this is a very positive thing and definitely see file-sharing playing at least some role in the rise of the genre's popularity.
that's complete conjecture, and also a partially flawed argument.

If it wasn't for people putting in years of hard work for no thanks, plus all their spare time and money, there wouldn't be a dubstep scene because there would be no files to share. If Ammunition hadn't run all those labels on a shoestring, if FWD>> hadn't been over half-empty for bloody years, if DMZ hadn't taken the chance and put on their first party etc...

I'm not saying you're completely wrong, but you're definitely not completely right.
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Post by bob crunkhouse » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:05 pm

Quietmouse wrote:
seckle wrote:i'm voicing a hard personal opinion. i'm not telling people what to do or not to do. don't twist this into something it's not. i just have ZERO time for P2P advocates that start speaking about hypocrisy.
Easy mate. I mean no actual disrespect to anyone, except maybe the people who download without giving anything back (be it buying the music they really like, going to shows, supporting the community, promoting the artist, whatever). I am definitely against that and I'll cede that probably the majority of file-sharers don't give anything back and it's a damn shame. So there's hypocrisy in p2p too of course, and there's hypocrisy in dubstep, but there's hypocrisy in everything, so what's the point in arguing over it? But I think the people who do file-share, and who do give back, that's what it's really all about, and that's what good about file-sharing and why I support it. The pros outweigh the cons to me at least.

Dubstep wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for file-sharing. The global community would be much, much smaller. There's an audience for this music now outside of the raves which many dubstep fans don't have the chance to go to. I think this is a very positive thing and definitely see file-sharing playing at least some role in the rise of the genre's popularity.

It's not my right to download dubstep. It's my privilege to hear this awesome music and try to support the artists best I can, even though it's not always monetarily.

Hope this clears some things up for those of you who don't understand or sympathize with a pro-filesharing viewpoint..
Agreed, sums it up very well. Would love to see where dubstep and a million other small music genres would be without filesharing.
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Post by nomorecomastep » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:09 pm

Barefiles had more to do with Dubstep being what it is than any File sharing.... Mixed Set sharing and radio shows had more to do with it. people have been playing unreleased dubstep tunes forever and still are... I don't think it has anything to do with the labels putting tunes out, really... most of the stuff we hear on the radio shows never gets a release, but the fans keep coming.

It's all about the producers and the tunes, because obviously it's not about the DJ's. We DJ's are just playing our collection of other peoples tunes, and sometimes our own tunes. DJ's aren't really important either.

Any means of getting mixed sets should be legal, no matter what. I wouldn't ever remove one without going to jail over it. Sharing tunes is dicey... mixing and sharing mixes is totally appropriate and absolutely the intention of Dance Music Producers and labels... is it not?

I know of a few dubstep labels that have told me that they don't mind as much, because they are selling out their runs because of the exposure they get on the Net.

I won't name names, but people have been asking them to repress certain tunes lately.


I also have probably the best ratio you can have on Torrent, because I'm almost always giving back. Fortunely, it's not Dubstep... and it might be situational ethics, but I value Dubstep more than I do the Motion Picture Industry, or Documentary makers, or Game makers, etc... and because a lot of people making those tunes are either friends of mine, or friends of a friend.

There is a lot of cloudy situational ethics going on, but that is to be expected.

The question is this... giving away a copy, physical or otherwise, of something that doesn't belong to you--thereby causing punitive damages to another individual is considered THEFT.

Lets break this down into code, shall we?

If Files Shared = Yes
Then Theft.TRUE = 1
If Morals = 0
Then Do Files.Shared = True
Last edited by nomorecomastep on Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bob crunkhouse » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 pm

ThinKing wrote:
Quietmouse wrote:Dubstep wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for file-sharing. The global community would be much, much smaller. There's an audience for this music now outside of the raves which many dubstep fans don't have the chance to go to. I think this is a very positive thing and definitely see file-sharing playing at least some role in the rise of the genre's popularity.
that's complete conjecture, and also a partially flawed argument.

If it wasn't for people putting in years of hard work for no thanks, plus all their spare time and money, there wouldn't be a dubstep scene because there would be no files to share. If Ammunition hadn't run all those labels on a shoestring, if FWD>> hadn't been over half-empty for bloody years, if DMZ hadn't taken the chance and put on their first party etc...

I'm not saying you're completely wrong, but you're definitely not completely right.
Hes not talking about the roots of the scene, hes talking about the evolution and mass spreading of it. Dont think anyone with disagree with what u said though :D
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Post by pdomino » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:18 pm

Down they go ;) .... like a crack whore doin' turkey.
Id like to know who the lad is.

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Post by bob crunkhouse » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:26 pm

24 year old guy from Middlesbrough, his house, his parents and his work offices were all raided. Pathetic.
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Post by paradigm_x » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:26 pm

id bet at least 90% of the shared mp3s are made with cracked and p2p'd software. Uncleared samples ? Accapella bootlegs ?

Draw any conclusions you like.

Its a boring argument thats been going on for years.

I was thinking if all the major (dubstep) label got to gether and sorted out a legal oink, maybe a bit like the mcps, have em all as torrents and customers pay a nominal £5 a month or summat fee, to get all the latest dubs in hi-q, like a legal oink. Money to be distributed based on downloads. Never used oink myself but from the article someone posted earlier it sounds like a good way of going about things. Knowing youll get all the latest stuff from all the labels would be a major draw, and with some solidarity there wouldnt be any good reason to share outside this network.

Of course, some people will always leak it but thats going to happen no matter what you do. Youve got to accept it and try and maximise the appeal of paying. Add the odd free unreleased tune. Give em a jpeg cover. Make it preferable to dling for free. Bung a lod of trojans on slsk ! (the dub virus!!! :twisted: )

Also release mp3 and vinyl at the same time, if you have to wait for an mp3 its no surprise people will dl a rip.

and release things on saturday evening when people are pissed on there computer ! (an ebay selling tip i heard modified !)

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Post by pdomino » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:32 pm

Bob Crunkhouse wrote:24 year old guy from Middlesbrough, his house, his parents and his work offices were all raided. Pathetic.
Cheers, Why you say pathetic ?

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Post by bob crunkhouse » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:35 pm

Paradigm X wrote:I was thinking if all the major (dubstep) label got to gether and sorted out a legal oink, maybe a bit like the mcps, have em all as torrents and customers pay a nominal £5 a month or summat fee, to get all the latest dubs in hi-q, like a legal oink. Money to be distributed based on downloads. Never used oink myself but from the article someone posted earlier it sounds like a good way of going about things. Knowing youll get all the latest stuff from all the labels would be a major draw, and with some solidarity there wouldnt be any good reason to share outside this network. Also release mp3 and vinyl at the same time, if you have to wait for an mp3 its no surprise people will dl a rip.
Totally true i made this point earlier, the labels and the mp3 providers (at least some of them) seem pretty slack. The £5 membership is cool but i wouldnt mind paying 50-99p a track if it was a regularly updated site with high quality files etc
Paradigm X wrote:Of course, some people will always leak it but thats going to happen no matter what you do. Youve got to accept it and try and maximise the appeal of paying.
True, but everything should be done to try and stop this, its the dark side of filesahring. Whats going through the mind of people doing this?!

Paradigm X wrote:and release things on saturday evening when people are pissed on there computer ! (an ebay selling tip i heard modified !
:D :D ive gone on pissed mp3 rampages before! left me broke! haha
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Post by bob crunkhouse » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:36 pm

pdomino wrote:
Bob Crunkhouse wrote:24 year old guy from Middlesbrough, his house, his parents and his work offices were all raided. Pathetic.
Cheers, Why you say pathetic ?
Because there treating him like an international terrorist or something, its madness!
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Post by nomorecomastep » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:38 pm

The way torrent works is that none of the torrent servers hold any of the files at all... they simply hold information on people that share through them, you can be anonymous on there, though. This guy is going to get off, because what he was doing wasn't breaking the law at all... the people sharing the files are breaking the law.

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Post by pdomino » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:41 pm

Bob Crunkhouse wrote:
pdomino wrote:
Bob Crunkhouse wrote:24 year old guy from Middlesbrough, his house, his parents and his work offices were all raided. Pathetic.
Cheers, Why you say pathetic ?
Because there treating him like an international terrorist or something, its madness!
Ah right, yeah agree, they want to be seen to be enforcing these laws, and when they do .... boy :!:

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Post by Littlefoot » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:25 pm

HERE IS THE QUESTION

has file sharing ever ACTUALLY damaged any artists or labels

I mean cold hard facts

aka

"X didnt sell many of X because it was share on OiNK for months before"

because we can argue over theoretical damage to the scene for months and months till we all get jaded

but has it ever ACTUALLY happened?

labels, jump in here!
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Post by biomat » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:41 pm

if it wasn't for file-sharing I wouldn't have ever gotten into dubstep or bought all the 12s I have
thats exactly my case too
and about that mixes... vinyl rips and proper taged mp3s with label and catalog information is way more comfort than listen to the mix, if speaker dont put info about tune, you must post a clip in ID topic etc etc
and to me happened many times that i dont feel the tune at pure bitrate coz i dont heard proper bassline or other samples...

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Post by chunkie » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:08 pm

what happened to internet radio???

filesharing CAN get folks into the scene but its also at the potential cost of revenue for the artist (possibly resulting in them not releasing anymore)

turn the clock back to before napster and everyone used to listen to radio to discover new music, this even easier now with internet radio and podcasts, as well as mixes on forums

its a bit more effort but worth it imo

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Post by ory » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:21 pm

We wouldn't have a scene without the free information trade system that is the Internet. Heck, in many cases we wouldn't even have musicians. I'm willing to bet that the majority of dubstep producers didn't pay for their software. Without file-sharing, we're stuck in our basements with no production equipment and no form of advertising whatsoever.

I'm definitely a capitalist, but not when it comes to intangible things like binary code. There's more to gain from free information sharing than from silly restrictions on 1's and 0's.

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Post by hopper » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:11 pm

Does this mean oink users are gonna be getting in a bit of trouble?

I occasionally used oink so this could get messy :roll:

But in a way I'm kinda glad to see it gone, as it takes away my attitude of thinking that if I couldn't buy it I could just download. Also as I've got stuff coming out it's nice to know it won't be plastered all over the internet before it even comes out.
:ghost:

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Post by ramadanman » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:38 pm

p2p does have its benefits - ive been introduced (and consequently bought a lot of) to a lot of artists in this way

what annoys me is when stuff is leaked pre- release, especially when the tracks are unmastered promo copies...

also its annoying to see shitty 192 rips of vinyl when there are full quality 320 / wav digital releases available from the label themselves, which have come straight off the mixing desk at the mastering studio!

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Post by brother loves dub » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:41 pm

http://www.negrophonic.com/2007/defendi ... ink-croaks

take the time to read DJ Rupture's response.

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Post by nubian minds » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:53 pm

I fully agree with 'DJ Ruptures' take on things.

:thumbu :)
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