61% of england want's their troops out of iraq.

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seckle
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61% of england want's their troops out of iraq.

Post by seckle » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:19 pm

:o
**according to cnn's latest figures.

can gordon brown accomplish what blair couldn't? i'd say the decision for the uk to pull troops out before the US is a priority for brown. it would go along well with his strong decisive image; an image that blair fought to create but never had. at this point iraq is not a matter of victory or loss, but more a situation of softening the blows to the reputation of england's foreign policy.

this is a very interesting time for england; nato and the whole transatlantic alliance.

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Post by rickyricardo » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:23 pm

I thought this was already decided, though. Aren't most (if not all) of the UK troops going to be out within the next year, anyway?
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Post by seckle » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:24 pm

RickyRicardo wrote:I thought this was already decided, though. Aren't most (if not all) of the UK troops going to be out within the next year, anyway?
well, there's speculation that brown will try to speed this up, as a show to england that he really means business.

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Post by rickyricardo » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:28 pm

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/uk- ... 36951.html

The plans are already in place. I guess it would just be Brown's role to sign off on them. We'll see, I suppose.
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Post by d-T-r » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:32 pm

out of iraq, into iran, nuclear war, dead...

fucking nwo.
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Post by twatty vagitis » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:04 pm

so we go into Iraq, completely fuk up their country, create havoc and carnage everywhere we go, then leave before the jobs done??

I agree, we should never have gone in the first place, but now we are there how can we leave Iraq in such a state? What message does that give to the rest of the world?

Leaving would be wrong at this time, totally wrong, we need to see this through!!!

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Post by randomhed » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:11 pm

Ironic thing is, blair is now the envoy to the middle east peace process. I gets the feelings those in charge dont want peace. :?

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Post by d-T-r » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:32 pm

randomhed wrote:Ironic thing is, blair is now the envoy to the middle east peace process. I gets the feelings those in charge dont want peace. :?
peace is the last thing they want, you're right.
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Post by rickyricardo » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:22 pm

twatty vagitis wrote: I agree, we should never have gone in the first place, but now we are there how can we leave Iraq in such a state? What message does that give to the rest of the world?
Whether we leave today or in 10 years that place will erupt into full-out civil war. Remaining there only prolongs the inevitable, imo.

I was reading an interview w/ Matt Taibbi the other day, and he put it this way:
I saw an old episode of “Homicide: Life on the Street” on the Sleuth channel the other night. In it a highly annoying Vince D’Onofrio falls between a subway car and the subway platform and he gets stuck there, with the train basically holding his guts in. The medics come in and they look at him and realize that if they move the train at all, his guts are going to fall out and he’s going to die. But if they do nothing, he’s going to slowly lose blood pressure and die. Either way, he’s going to die. Iraq is Vince D’Onofrio. It doesn’t overact as much, but it’s just as fucked. The bloodbath is coming as soon as we leave, whether that’s now or 20 years from now. But I’d be interested to hear your argument explaining how things are going to improve by us staying and spending a billion bucks a day or whatever playing Play Station in air conditioned trailers behind twenty-foot walls while Iraqis have six hours of electricity and pee into buckets and get their throats slit as soon as night falls. You’re probably right, a few more years of that, and this Sunni-Shia hatred thing will pass.
There's nothing that western powers can do to fix Iraq short of raising Saddam from the dead, and blanking out ppls memories of the last 4 years.

Iraq is fucked. We fucked it. The only way we can stop fucking it, is to get out.
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Post by kit kat » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:36 pm

RickyRicardo wrote:Whether we leave today or in 10 years that place will erupt into full-out civil war. Remaining there only prolongs the inevitable, imo.
True unfortunately.

We went in and fucked any form of 'political structure' they had before, and now we're just experiencing the inevitable fallout. Even if we try to instill some kind of government now and then leave, in all honesty it's just gonna crumble pretty damn soon after and then we have a nice large anarchic, civil war ridden nation with nothing to blame but our intervention...

Darn! Hind sight is a terrible thing :?

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Post by rickyricardo » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:42 pm

Kit Kat wrote: Darn! Hind sight is a terrible thing :?
Some of us knew the whole ordeal was fucked before there was even any hindsight to use. I remember people coming onto shows like Democracy Now, and predicting this very outcome.

Of course all those people preaching anything but rosy outcomes and cakewalks were only heard on the most marginal of media outlets and dismissed as traitors, pessimists, french, or whatever.
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Post by Pada » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:09 pm

wait 39% of britons are labour MPs?
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Post by self love » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:36 pm

this is an oil war plain and simple. planned and executed from before 9/11. remove all the fancy wrapping paper...religion, terrorism, rogue states, axis of evil, etc. and you'll see this is a large scale mugging for natural resources. we'll never leave iraq/iran. every modern convenience we enjoy depends on cheap energy...it's running out so we're snatching it up before ever-expanding china gets to it. wanna end the war? gotta start coming up with some healthy alternatives. that and create peace in your own life. sounds retarded and new-agey but it's like ghandi said, be the change.
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Post by hera » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:06 pm

adisize wrote:wait 39% of britons are labour MPs?

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Post by sizzla » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:33 pm

Self Love wrote:this is an oil war plain and simple. planned and executed from before 9/11. remove all the fancy wrapping paper...religion, terrorism, rogue states, axis of evil, etc. and you'll see this is a large scale mugging for natural resources. we'll never leave iraq/iran. every modern convenience we enjoy depends on cheap energy...it's running out so we're snatching it up before ever-expanding china gets to it. wanna end the war? gotta start coming up with some healthy alternatives. that and create peace in your own life. sounds retarded and new-agey but it's like ghandi said, be the change.
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you hit it right on the spot, there was this document called The New Republicans, and in it it detailed why America needs to control the world. America is in depth to the world in the Trillions of dollars, in other words we are living on borrowed money as explained by Bill Clinton once. China is waking up and they want their cars too. That poses a threat to us as the biggest oil burner.

Back in the 70s president Nixon made Iraq sign a deal that would allow the US to buy oil at a certain low price since they were goin to need alot of it. Iraq and other countries agreed. One catch though, Iraq could only sell oil in U.S. dollars, which would benefit us as well.

Before the war, Saddam was going to break that deal seeing the rising value of the euro and China. In other words he was going to switch customers and give the rest of the world a chance to buy oil with euros, thereby giving America some stiff competition. This was America's worst fear, another apt competitor rising in the ranks.

This meant no more chances of ever having full control of the world. America had to act quick b4 Saddam put his new plan into place which he had already stated he was going to do so.

Like Self said, there's no clear intention to ever leave. We have to guard our huge pot of black gold. We are at an oil peak. this is highway robbery. the media is not going to ask Bush if this is true at the white house press release meetings for they know that as soon as they start asking those kind of questions they will not be invited to sit with the rest of the reporters.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that some of these mosque bombings were actually cuased by Americans from a far distance. nobody could tell the difference between a suicide bomber or a small missile if its done right.
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Post by nospin » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:45 pm

twatty vagitis wrote:so we go into Iraq, completely fuk up their country, create havoc and carnage everywhere we go, then leave before the jobs done??

I agree, we should never have gone in the first place, but now we are there how can we leave Iraq in such a state? What message does that give to the rest of the world?

Leaving would be wrong at this time, totally wrong, we need to see this through!!!
staying and trying to mediate a civil war is an even odder concept to me.
keep some in for intelligence issues, and the actual 'war on terror'... and use our resources more efficiently.

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Post by shonky » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:47 pm

It was actually 2/3rds of brits that didn't want us to go to war in the first place
Hmm....

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Post by sizzla » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:40 am

the majority of Americans were also against the war and yet we still went. the majority of American were also againt a Bush re-election and yet he still won. The majority of Americans now know it was a mistake to go and believe it's time to return and yet they're still there. you do the math.
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Post by spaceboy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:21 am

RickyRicardo wrote:
twatty vagitis wrote: I agree, we should never have gone in the first place, but now we are there how can we leave Iraq in such a state? What message does that give to the rest of the world?
Whether we leave today or in 10 years that place will erupt into full-out civil war. Remaining there only prolongs the inevitable, imo.

I was reading an interview w/ Matt Taibbi the other day, and he put it this way:
I saw an old episode of “Homicide: Life on the Street” on the Sleuth channel the other night. In it a highly annoying Vince D’Onofrio falls between a subway car and the subway platform and he gets stuck there, with the train basically holding his guts in. The medics come in and they look at him and realize that if they move the train at all, his guts are going to fall out and he’s going to die. But if they do nothing, he’s going to slowly lose blood pressure and die. Either way, he’s going to die. Iraq is Vince D’Onofrio. It doesn’t overact as much, but it’s just as fucked. The bloodbath is coming as soon as we leave, whether that’s now or 20 years from now. But I’d be interested to hear your argument explaining how things are going to improve by us staying and spending a billion bucks a day or whatever playing Play Station in air conditioned trailers behind twenty-foot walls while Iraqis have six hours of electricity and pee into buckets and get their throats slit as soon as night falls. You’re probably right, a few more years of that, and this Sunni-Shia hatred thing will pass.
There's nothing that western powers can do to fix Iraq short of raising Saddam from the dead, and blanking out ppls memories of the last 4 years.

Iraq is fucked. We fucked it. The only way we can stop fucking it, is to get out.


its like bullying a kid, beating the fuck out of it, and leaving it gasping for help...

utterly dispicable behaviour in my eyes. one that blair and your government should be truly ashamed about.
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