United States Presidential Election 2012

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United States Presidential Election 2012

Barack Obama (D, incumbent)
100
67%
Newt Gingrich (R)
2
1%
Ron Paul (R)
39
26%
Mitt Romney (R)
6
4%
Rick Santorum (R)
3
2%
 
Total votes: 150

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United States Presidential Election 2012

Post by -[2]DAY_- » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:30 pm

Does there seem to be much opining in the UK (or rest of world) regarding Obama winning a possible 2nd term of office? or the people who are poising to run against him?
Just wondering if the rest of the world has any remarks......... hopefully this isn't a shit storm can of worms type of topic, i don't really enjoy politics or have a set opinion on this, it's just kind of interesting to me. Maybe its just a USA issue and has no relevance to most people in other nations?
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Genevieve » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:35 pm

The general public in Europe doesn't really know anything about the next elections. They're probably all still convinced that Obama saved the world too, even though he's pretty much George Bush.

I follow the elections a lot, though. I'm all about Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, though I suspect that Romney will get the nomination, but lose to Obama. Ron Paul could beat Obama, though, but seeing as he likely won't win the primaries I'm not gonna count on it.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by -[2]DAY_- » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:43 pm

that just about sums up my own predictions
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Genevieve » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:53 pm

Also, seeing as the USA is the dominant world power, its currency is every other major currency's reserve and their foreign policy sets the tone for the rest of the western world, the 2012 elections are relevant to pretty much everyone posting here.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by magma » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:09 pm

This is an easier one than last time, surely? Even if Obama can't play the Black Jesus card again, the Republicans are almost completely unelectable... I can't see them getting a candidate that enough people will get behind, especially after the ruckus the Tea Party has been causing recently.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by JBoy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:21 pm

The fact that america is the worlds biggest super power means that its elections do have a significance to others than just americans, well in my opinion anyway. My thoughts are that everyone thought just because he was black that the world would change just because he was elected, i suppose hes set a few things in motion but hes hardly as great as everyone thought he would be. I suppose its hard to change a country when the core of its people are crazy religious types that refuse to have it any other way then what they want it.

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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by -[2]DAY_- » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:25 pm

i'd like to think that isn't the core of our people.... but, it probably is. it's a tough call these days
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by JBoy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:29 pm

-[2]DAY_- wrote:i'd like to think that isn't the core of our people.... but, it probably is. it's a tough call these days
Yeah maybe i said that in the wrong way. What i mean is that the main people in power are the ones that have the money, mainly which they have inherited and they feel that the money they have is god given and that they shouldnt have to pay taxes, isnt that why america is in all this debt in the first place?

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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by pkay » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:09 pm

magma wrote:This is an easier one than last time, surely? Even if Obama can't play the Black Jesus card again, the Republicans are almost completely unelectable... I can't see them getting a candidate that enough people will get behind, especially after the ruckus the Tea Party has been causing recently.

I dunno romneys shaping up to be a stud

if he can make it through primaries without being devoured by his own party he stands a chance

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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Genevieve » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:17 pm

magma wrote:This is an easier one than last time, surely? Even if Obama can't play the Black Jesus card again, the Republicans are almost completely unelectable... I can't see them getting a candidate that enough people will get behind, especially after the ruckus the Tea Party has been causing recently.
You do realize that Obama has bombed more countries than Bush, right? This has nothing to do with what party a candidate is affiliated with. The decent politicans of both parties are ignored by the media (Paul, Kucinich, etc), so it's not like the Republicans are the evil crazy lot with the Democrats being the voice of reason. Both parties serve the status quo, both parties are corporatist assholes. And let's not forget that Obama got the most corporate funding out of ANY candidate 4 years ago, and even more so now, him getting most of his support from Wallstreet. And let's not forget that Obama is the number one recipient of funding from News Corp, the parent company of Fox News, while Clinton was last time.

Other than that, the USA isn't a dictatorship. Democrats and Republicans are both in congress, with Democrats having been the majority in the better part of the 20th century. The president's biggest influence is in the army, seeing as he can move the troops at will. And Obama, the supposed anti-war president, isn't making use of that right to take the troops home at all, contrary to what he promised.

I would've actually prefered McCain in office over Obama. I think both are worthless politicians, but at least with McCain in office, the "anti-war left" would still be on their toes. With Obama they're for the most part pretty passive seeing as when it comes to 'anti-war Democrats' they care more about the 'Democrat' part than the 'anti-war' part.

And the Tea Party movement doesn't exist. It's mostly a media invention to collectivize disgruntled Republicans. Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Last edited by Genevieve on Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by wormcode » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:30 pm

JBoy wrote:
-[2]DAY_- wrote:i'd like to think that isn't the core of our people.... but, it probably is. it's a tough call these days
Yeah maybe i said that in the wrong way. What i mean is that the main people in power are the ones that have the money, mainly which they have inherited and they feel that the money they have is god given and that they shouldnt have to pay taxes, isnt that why america is in all this debt in the first place?
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by wormcode » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:32 pm

Genevieve wrote: Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Paul left and no longer supports that, he's been speaking out against them being corporately owned now.

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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Genevieve » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:38 pm

wormcode wrote:
Genevieve wrote: Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Paul left and no longer supports that, he's been speaking out against them being corporately owned now.
He never claimed to be apart of them in the first place, the phrase 'tea party movement' was just coined when Ron Paul supporters protested government spending on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Then a bunch of self-important Republicans picked up on the term and used it as an excuse to speak out against the Republican estasblishment, the same establishment that they actually support themselves.

As I said, it's a pretty meaningless term. It's a mishmash of disgruntled Republicans who dislike neocons and neocons who pretend to dislike neocons but still believe in all of their stances and the media just picked up and ran with it.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by pkay » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:51 pm

wormcode wrote:
Genevieve wrote: Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Paul left and no longer supports that, he's been speaking out against them being corporately owned now.
Yeah can't be anti-establishment if they're dominating the political scene these days ehh?

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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Genevieve » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:29 pm

pkay wrote:
wormcode wrote:
Genevieve wrote: Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Paul left and no longer supports that, he's been speaking out against them being corporately owned now.
Yeah can't be anti-establishment if they're dominating the political scene these days ehh?
Yeah uhhh, what people call 'the tea party' these days are Bachmann and Palin supporters, who are pretty much the opposite of what Ron Paul stands for. If Ron Paul were to support that, he would be a massive hypocrite.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Kodachrome » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:11 pm

Genevieve wrote:
pkay wrote:
wormcode wrote:
Genevieve wrote: Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Paul left and no longer supports that, he's been speaking out against them being corporately owned now.
Yeah can't be anti-establishment if they're dominating the political scene these days ehh?
Yeah uhhh, what people call 'the tea party' these days are Bachmann and Palin supporters, who are pretty much the opposite of what Ron Paul stands for. If Ron Paul were to support that, he would be a massive hypocrite.
In before someone posts all that stuff on Ron Paul.

Chomsky on Paul:

http://anarchismtoday.org/News/article/sid=74.html
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by magma » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:21 pm

Genevieve wrote:
magma wrote:This is an easier one than last time, surely? Even if Obama can't play the Black Jesus card again, the Republicans are almost completely unelectable... I can't see them getting a candidate that enough people will get behind, especially after the ruckus the Tea Party has been causing recently.
You do realize that Obama has bombed more countries than Bush, right? This has nothing to do with what party a candidate is affiliated with. The decent politicans of both parties are ignored by the media (Paul, Kucinich, etc), so it's not like the Republicans are the evil crazy lot with the Democrats being the voice of reason. Both parties serve the status quo, both parties are corporatist assholes. And let's not forget that Obama got the most corporate funding out of ANY candidate 4 years ago, and even more so now, him getting most of his support from Wallstreet. And let's not forget that Obama is the number one recipient of funding from News Corp, the parent company of Fox News, while Clinton was last time.

Other than that, the USA isn't a dictatorship. Democrats and Republicans are both in congress, with Democrats having been the majority in the better part of the 20th century. The president's biggest influence is in the army, seeing as he can move the troops at will. And Obama, the supposed anti-war president, isn't making use of that right to take the troops home at all, contrary to what he promised.

I would've actually prefered McCain in office over Obama. I think both are worthless politicians, but at least with McCain in office, the "anti-war left" would still be on their toes. With Obama they're for the most part pretty passive seeing as when it comes to 'anti-war Democrats' they care more about the 'Democrat' part than the 'anti-war' part.

And the Tea Party movement doesn't exist. It's mostly a media invention to collectivize disgruntled Republicans. Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
I agree with most of what you say, but it doesn't stop the Tea Party having a worryingly large influence over the Republican Party at the moment... it *will* make an impact on who they choose. The candidate won't be a Tea Partier by any stretch, but they will affect the outcome.

They remind me of the British Conservatives in 2005 after Labour stormed to victory in 1997 and 2001... lots of bluster, but a party in disarray that simply couldn't organise itself in time for the fight.

It's not particularly a problem for me if the Dems get through by default... Obama's not been great, but he's certainly much easier to understand than any other American president during my life time. He seems to speak a similar language to normal people*, which is always nice for someone with their finger on the button.



*by this I mean "people I talk to about politics"
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by pkay » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:45 pm

you're confusing the tea parties ability to disrupt with supported influence.

when we were talking about egypt I made the same analogy with the muslim brotherhood concerns.

it doesn't take a majority to disrupt the rest of the government and force them to bow to your will if you are dedicated enough. The tea party has been organized enough to take a few elected individuals and disrupt our political process. This does not mean their views are supported or even representative of their people.

A tea partier does not represent the republican party as a whole, therefor will not be nominated. Their views are not common and will not win an election. This is why they pick their battles, fight in winable elections, and take their agenda to congress and make themselves heard.

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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by Genevieve » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:59 pm

Kodachrome wrote:
Genevieve wrote:
pkay wrote:
wormcode wrote:
Genevieve wrote: Both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin are considered 'voices of the tea party', two politicians who are pretty much the opposite of each other.
Paul left and no longer supports that, he's been speaking out against them being corporately owned now.
Yeah can't be anti-establishment if they're dominating the political scene these days ehh?
Yeah uhhh, what people call 'the tea party' these days are Bachmann and Palin supporters, who are pretty much the opposite of what Ron Paul stands for. If Ron Paul were to support that, he would be a massive hypocrite.
In before someone posts all that stuff on Ron Paul.

Chomsky on Paul:

http://anarchismtoday.org/News/article/sid=74.html
He's pretty ignorant on what Ron Paul actually believes, tbh. Don't really feel like debunking everything he says (I don't really take Chomsky that seriously, among other reasons), but Ron Paul doesn't intend to get rid of social programs. In fact, he wants to massively cut spending overseas so some of the money can be spent on those programs. He does want to transition away from those, but congress likely wouldn't co-operate with that. He's already admitted that the only thing he can really change when elected is foreign policy because the president has ultimate command of the troops and he would bring them all back home.
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Re: USA 2012 Election..Obama..?

Post by magma » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:08 pm

pkay wrote:you're confusing the tea parties ability to disrupt with supported influence.

when we were talking about egypt I made the same analogy with the muslim brotherhood concerns.

it doesn't take a majority to disrupt the rest of the government and force them to bow to your will if you are dedicated enough. The tea party has been organized enough to take a few elected individuals and disrupt our political process. This does not mean their views are supported or even representative of their people.

A tea partier does not represent the republican party as a whole, therefor will not be nominated. Their views are not common and will not win an election. This is why they pick their battles, fight in winable elections, and take their agenda to congress and make themselves heard.
Erm, I just said they won't get nominated, only that they will have an effect on the outcome. I'd be very surprised if they're not an issue during the Primaries and even into the Presidential run itself. They have very loud voices for a tiny band of nutters.
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