Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by butter_man » Tue May 14, 2013 5:40 pm

What would happen in the case of debts deducted from benefits? Would you lose a bean voucher to pay off a crisis loan? Would this involve every shop or just the major chains?

More attention needs to be paid to the flexibility of money and its uses in low economic areas beyond beans bills and booze. 'lend us a tenner till tuesday' wont have same redeeming values when tuesday comes round if a tin openers involved.

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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by DJoe » Tue May 14, 2013 5:47 pm

not all food is the same quality. would this mean people could only get nasty cheap food that's clearly bad for them, which brands could it be used for etc.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Forum » Tue May 14, 2013 5:52 pm

It would make my job a lot easier if all housing benefit was paid directly to the letting agent, thats all i'll say on the matter
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Harkat » Tue May 14, 2013 6:01 pm

magma wrote:
wub wrote:Milk, essential
Flat screen TV w/ Sky Sports package, luxury
Now try it for the other 9999999999 products and services on sale in the UK without sounding like you're patronising people. You have to leave this to families unless you want a nation clouded by demoralised poor people feeling like naughty schoolchildren who don't deserve freedom within their own existences.

Its every human's right to fuck up in whatever way they see fit.
But they'd be fucking up with taxpayer money. I see what you mean in terms of Us VS them though...that kind of culture is no good.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by DJoe » Tue May 14, 2013 6:03 pm

Harkat wrote:
magma wrote:
wub wrote:Milk, essential
Flat screen TV w/ Sky Sports package, luxury
Now try it for the other 9999999999 products and services on sale in the UK without sounding like you're patronising people. You have to leave this to families unless you want a nation clouded by demoralised poor people feeling like naughty schoolchildren who don't deserve freedom within their own existences.

Its every human's right to fuck up in whatever way they see fit.
But they'd be fucking up with taxpayer money. I see what you mean in terms of Us VS them though...that kind of culture is no good.
the money will go to them either way
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Harkat » Tue May 14, 2013 6:21 pm

djredi2step wrote:
Harkat wrote:
magma wrote:
wub wrote:Milk, essential
Flat screen TV w/ Sky Sports package, luxury
Now try it for the other 9999999999 products and services on sale in the UK without sounding like you're patronising people. You have to leave this to families unless you want a nation clouded by demoralised poor people feeling like naughty schoolchildren who don't deserve freedom within their own existences.

Its every human's right to fuck up in whatever way they see fit.
But they'd be fucking up with taxpayer money. I see what you mean in terms of Us VS them though...that kind of culture is no good.
the money will go to them either way
Yeah, but the idea goes that, if they receive these vouchers instead of $$$ then they can't fuck up by buying beer and xboxes, so the money isn't wasted. Then they'll be more productive long term and not have to be on benefits forever, so less money is spent. Not saying it works, just saying that's the idea.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Pedro Sánchez » Tue May 14, 2013 8:54 pm

How dare the unemployed eat with my HARDWORKING taxes.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by kidshuffle » Tue May 14, 2013 9:08 pm

Harkat wrote:
Yeah, but the idea goes that, if they receive these vouchers instead of $$$ then they can't fuck up by buying beer and xboxes, so the money isn't wasted. Then they'll be more productive long term and not have to be on benefits forever, so less money is spent. Not saying it works, just saying that's the idea.
except for you can trade vouchers on the street for beers and xbox's. you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Pistonsbeneath » Tue May 14, 2013 9:38 pm

Be unemployed for a bit

I am unemployed for the first time in a long time through no fault of my own and it's no picnic

bear in mind people pay taxes when they work to fund the benefits system so are entitled to get that back later...granted there are a small amount of cases relatively speaking where it's long term through choice but very few people like being unemployed
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by d-T-r » Tue May 14, 2013 10:38 pm

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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Harkat » Tue May 14, 2013 11:17 pm

If there's any doubt I'm not pointing the finger at unemployed people or benefit collectors, just tryna explain a pov.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Terpit » Wed May 15, 2013 5:13 am

They should put the poor people in camps
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Harkat » Wed May 15, 2013 5:34 am

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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by arktrix45hz » Wed May 15, 2013 9:39 am

magma wrote:Giving people vouchers instead of money is a pretty efficient way to tell them that the country doesn't trust them and that they're clearly too thick to set their own priorities. A step towards Them Vs Us, especially as we'll be able to judge each other at the checkout.

No thanks.

Birmingham City Council have already started doing this afaik. The cards can also only be used at Asda, a workfare provider. So basically, work a 40 hour week for your job seekers allowance, then only be able to spend your money on pre paid cards within a company already profitting from your free/WAY under minimum wage slave labour with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. (Tesco are renowned for taking people on for the duration of this placement, then filling their positions with more when the term ends)

So not only do you then not have money for transport to the job you're working for for free/way, way under minimum wage, you get sanctioned for being unable to get there efficiently too. All this whilst still having to spend 20 hours or so a week looking for work too.

Unemployment stats in this country count people as in full time work when they're taken off normal signing and put on to this regime. I'd have no qualms working a 40 hour week for a big company IF I was being paid a full wage for it and wasn't told I could only spend my money in one place. As it stands, I've already refused to.

I'd really, really like it if they could fix the Universal Jobmatch website too. I've lost count of the amount of jobs I've applied for through the actual site and they've not been logged in my (as of april) mandatory account on there. Not to mention using my advisors saved searches for me, which tell me jobs were posted in 2014/15/16

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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by magma » Wed May 15, 2013 9:44 am

arktrix wrote:
magma wrote:Giving people vouchers instead of money is a pretty efficient way to tell them that the country doesn't trust them and that they're clearly too thick to set their own priorities. A step towards Them Vs Us, especially as we'll be able to judge each other at the checkout.

No thanks.

Birmingham City Council have already started doing this afaik. The cards can also only be used at Asda, a workfare provider. So basically, work a 40 hour week for your job seekers allowance, then only be able to spend your money on pre paid cards within a company already profitting from your free/WAY under minimum wage slave labour with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. (Tesco are renowned for taking people on for the duration of this placement, then filling their positions with more when the term ends)
Sharecropping for the 21st Century.

Only even more rubbish.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by arktrix45hz » Wed May 15, 2013 9:45 am

magma wrote:
arktrix wrote:
magma wrote:Giving people vouchers instead of money is a pretty efficient way to tell them that the country doesn't trust them and that they're clearly too thick to set their own priorities. A step towards Them Vs Us, especially as we'll be able to judge each other at the checkout.

No thanks.

Birmingham City Council have already started doing this afaik. The cards can also only be used at Asda, a workfare provider. So basically, work a 40 hour week for your job seekers allowance, then only be able to spend your money on pre paid cards within a company already profitting from your free/WAY under minimum wage slave labour with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. (Tesco are renowned for taking people on for the duration of this placement, then filling their positions with more when the term ends)
Sharecropping for the 21st Century.

Only even more rubbish.
Si, could you explain the sharecropping term, first time I've heard it used?
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by magma » Wed May 15, 2013 9:52 am

arktrix wrote:
magma wrote:
arktrix wrote:
magma wrote:Giving people vouchers instead of money is a pretty efficient way to tell them that the country doesn't trust them and that they're clearly too thick to set their own priorities. A step towards Them Vs Us, especially as we'll be able to judge each other at the checkout.

No thanks.

Birmingham City Council have already started doing this afaik. The cards can also only be used at Asda, a workfare provider. So basically, work a 40 hour week for your job seekers allowance, then only be able to spend your money on pre paid cards within a company already profitting from your free/WAY under minimum wage slave labour with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. (Tesco are renowned for taking people on for the duration of this placement, then filling their positions with more when the term ends)
Sharecropping for the 21st Century.

Only even more rubbish.
Si, could you explain the sharecropping term, first time I've heard it used?
It was a system for capitalising farm investments, used largely in the post-slavery era in the US and across Africa by white farmers who employed labour in return for a share of the crop which the workers could then sell at market. The hook was that people were generally never paid enough to save any money so they were stuck, effectively still in slave labour - most of their "profit" ended up being paid back to the farm owner who would charge rent, sell them tools or take a further cut of the profit in return for taking the crop to market (seeing as the labourers wouldn't have time).

I'm very sceptical about allowing employers to pay their workers in anything but cash.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Phigure » Wed May 15, 2013 9:56 am

wub wrote:
Riddles wrote:Also the decision on what is a luxury and what isn't is pretty subjective.
Milk, essential
Flat screen TV w/ Sky Sports package, luxury
those are extremes, somewhere between those lies a fuzzy grey area

edit: oops, didnt see the thread had already progressed much further :lol:
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by hutyluty » Wed May 15, 2013 9:59 am

Maybe in the future when robots do everything and employment finally becomes pretty untenable for everyone, "currency" will be distributed by the government to everyone equally every month to spend on what they like. You'll probably get 100 world dollars zapped onto your omniphone which you can scan in the unmanned shops.
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Re: Alternative proposal for benefits allocation

Post by Terpit » Wed May 15, 2013 10:00 am

Phigure wrote:
wub wrote:
Riddles wrote:Also the decision on what is a luxury and what isn't is pretty subjective.
Milk, essential
Flat screen TV w/ Sky Sports package, luxury
those are extremes, somewhere between those lies a fuzzy grey area

edit: oops, didnt see the thread had already progressed much further :lol:
Yep

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