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7/4 Structure

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Postby shatterfreak » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:58 pm

Just wondering if anyone has done anything in 7/4?

I've begun to experiment with it, and am quite enjoying it if i'm honest. Any thoughts on it in Dubstep? It definitely an interesting one, so far i've done up 3 or 4 different things with it. Not something ( i reckon, but am open to correction ) that would work outside of an intro maybe if you are aiming for a club banger, but definitely interesting for some more laid back pieces.

An example of what i've done below.

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Postby collective » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:17 pm

you are not actually writing in a true 7/4, its actually standard 4/4 feel but cut down to 7/4 in length... if you understand what i am saying. just thought I'd let you know.
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Postby shatterfreak » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:25 pm

collective wrote:you are not actually writing in a true 7/4, its actually standard 4/4 feel but cut down to 7/4 in length... if you understand what i am saying. just thought I'd let you know.


Nope, thats kind of why i'm posting.

Basically, what did i do wrong, if you don't mind taking the time to help a brother out?

Cheers dude.
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Postby Rickmansworth » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:37 pm

odd time structures are good fun and all, but its a waste of time imo. 6/4 if youre working on a classical tune rmx maybe?
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Postby adam_john » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:37 pm

7/4 just means you have 7 counts of quarter notes in a measure..as opposed to 4 counts in a 4/4 structure. So..in a 7/4 tune, each measure will count 7 beats. 4/4, each measure counts 4 beats.
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Postby collective » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:00 pm

adam_john wrote:7/4 just means you have 7 counts of quarter notes in a measure..as opposed to 4 counts in a 4/4 structure. So..in a 7/4 tune, each measure will count 7 beats. 4/4, each measure counts 4 beats.



Yeah basically, but when you get into complex rhythms and more complex prolations it is not so simple as counting always.

shatterfreak wrote:
collective wrote:you are not actually writing in a true 7/4, its actually standard 4/4 feel but cut down to 7/4 in length... if you understand what i am saying. just thought I'd let you know.


Nope, thats kind of why i'm posting.

Basically, what did i do wrong, if you don't mind taking the time to help a brother out?

Cheers dude.


Without being at a kit or instrument to show you what I mean, its about emphasis of certain beats. So basically taking an eight beat phrase and shaving a beat off the end of it won't make the beat a true 7/4. I don't have the proper vocabulary to describe what I could show you in person, maybe someone will be able to step in and fill the gaps.


Regardless, playing around in 7 is fun!
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Postby dignan » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:08 pm

collective wrote:
adam_john wrote:7/4 just means you have 7 counts of quarter notes in a measure..as opposed to 4 counts in a 4/4 structure. So..in a 7/4 tune, each measure will count 7 beats. 4/4, each measure counts 4 beats.



Yeah basically, but when you get into complex rhythms and more complex prolations it is not so simple as counting always.

shatterfreak wrote:
collective wrote:you are not actually writing in a true 7/4, its actually standard 4/4 feel but cut down to 7/4 in length... if you understand what i am saying. just thought I'd let you know.


Nope, thats kind of why i'm posting.

Basically, what did i do wrong, if you don't mind taking the time to help a brother out?

Cheers dude.


Without being at a kit or instrument to show you what I mean, its about emphasis of certain beats. So basically taking an eight beat phrase and shaving a beat off the end of it won't make the beat a true 7/4. I don't have the proper vocabulary to describe what I could show you in person, maybe someone will be able to step in and fill the gaps.


Regardless, playing around in 7 is fun!


how is that not playing in 7/4? you can play a straight rhythm with no accents and still be in 7/4, it will sound rigid and have no flow - is this kinda what you meant? I think the most important thing about playing in odd times is making it feel like you're not. most people who listen to a song in 7/4 won't even notice it's in an odd time, that's where flow and accents come into play.
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Postby gnome » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:20 pm

Why can't you just programme a 7/4 beat in a 4/4 grid? Why the need to change the time signature in the DAW?
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Postby ÆIUM » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:55 pm

collective wrote:
adam_john wrote:7/4 just means you have 7 counts of quarter notes in a measure..as opposed to 4 counts in a 4/4 structure. So..in a 7/4 tune, each measure will count 7 beats. 4/4, each measure counts 4 beats.



Yeah basically, but when you get into complex rhythms and more complex prolations it is not so simple as counting always.

shatterfreak wrote:
collective wrote:you are not actually writing in a true 7/4, its actually standard 4/4 feel but cut down to 7/4 in length... if you understand what i am saying. just thought I'd let you know.


Nope, thats kind of why i'm posting.

Basically, what did i do wrong, if you don't mind taking the time to help a brother out?

Cheers dude.


Without being at a kit or instrument to show you what I mean, its about emphasis of certain beats. So basically taking an eight beat phrase and shaving a beat off the end of it won't make the beat a true 7/4. I don't have the proper vocabulary to describe what I could show you in person, maybe someone will be able to step in and fill the gaps.


Regardless, playing around in 7 is fun!


I think I know what you mean. I think he is saying that certain grooves are easiest to notate in a 7/4 time signature, and and when people talk about the 7/4 time signature they are probably talking about one of the 7/4 grooves, not necessarily any sequence that might happen to match on paper.

That said, I liked the song. I think it would be more fair to say it's not a "traditional" 7/4 rather than saying it's not a "true" 7/4.
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Postby collige » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:03 pm

Who says you can't make bangers in 7/4?
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Postby shatterfreak » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:29 pm

collige wrote:Who says you can't make bangers in 7/4?
http://soundcloud.com/collegehill/resident-evil


That was me, i was more saying the structure may not suit over a full tune for it.

Open to correction though.
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Postby macc » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:06 am

7/4 is the one for me! Absolutely love it. I must dig out one tune from back then...
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Postby tripaddict » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:59 am

i did an 8/4 and programmed each pattern 2/3 2/3 2/2 figure that out lol

ie.
B_____B_____B_B_
___S_____S___S_S
H__H__H__H__H___

sounds pretty cool ... and on the breaks too :)
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Postby mks » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:20 am

tripaddict wrote:i did an 8/4 and programmed each pattern 2/3 2/3 2/2 figure that out lol


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Postby DEMZ » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:57 am

I've written a few drum parts in 7, any drummer that can solo in 7 has some real talent :). 7/4 is 7 beats per par counted in quarter notes, as far as producing a dubstep tune in 7/4 it would be a really interesting track but I could see people getting a little confused in a club unless it was really well put together.
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Postby _boring » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:26 am

sick tune
SOUNDCLOUD.COM/STUNTMANSTEP
SOUNDCLOUD.COM/STUNTMAN-2
SOUNDCLOUD.COM/STUNTMAN-3
WAXMUSEUMRADIO.NET
MNM PRESENTS/QUEEN CITY CARTEL
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Postby Hurtdeer » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:32 am

i love 7/4, i use it a lot. other time signatures too. for no real reason other than that i listened to too much prog rock as a kid and vsnares as an adult. i kind of like that it sounds a little weird

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Postby flippo » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:35 pm

yeah likewise - I've done tunes in 3, 7, 6, 10 and 12. Similarly to Hurtdeer I attribute it to a diet of prog-rock and metal as a kid, and then diving into spots of mathrock and the like later in life - pretty much standard practice in those genres.

You'd be suprised how they can be used in DJ'ing if you just think a bit latterly, use some smart bass cuts on certain counts to pull the tunes together.

You can also do a bit of trickery with tunes that have different BPMS and different time sigs, but bar lengths are similar (in seconds, not beats). EG 3/4 tune at about 105 or so will have a bar length the same as 140 bpm 4/4; the 3/4 tune ends up sounding like a layer of triplets underneath. I've built this kind of thing into a tune where it drops into triplets at the end - when DJ'ing out of it you can either stick to the tempo interpreting the beats as triplets, or if you just treat them as 3/4 quarter notes the section can be used to drop the tempo into a slow techno or fast hiphop speed without having to drop the beat.

Similar thing can be done with drum n bass 4/4 triplets being 'swapped' for faster techno 3/4 quarters etc.

Could always do with more tunes in different time sigs so throw up any others that you have or know of peeps!
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Postby nowaysj » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:03 pm

7/4, shmevin for, 320 plz.
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Postby karmacazee » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:02 pm

What I want to know is: Why can't people dance to anything other than 4/4? 3/4 and 6/8 are ridiculously danceable, that's why they invented waltzes!

I think it's about time the average punter learned to dance to different time sigs so us producers can spread our beat division wings!

Yeah, alternative time signature EDM revolution in 2010 anyone?

Oh, and my most fave 7/4 tune:



Must be a lot of prog-heads in this here forum....
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