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SUBS!

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Postby pete_bubonic » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:39 pm

The foundation on what dubstep is built. How do you yours?

I hear Benga and Skream use FL's TB 404 which has good lfo automation to get those sounds coined by these producers.

Personally I use an outboard Novation Bass Station for real gut rumbling subs, but it's crap with automation (because it's fucking old). So I like Nuendo's native A1 synth. A very simple dual oscillator synth basically built for subs. But the automation isn't great. I use a Virus Rack XL as well, but this excels at the growly mid ranges with uber bass rather than the bass itself.

The FM7 makes some pretty coool noises, but it's a mission to understand fully and I really don't get FM synthesis all that well.

What about eq'ing and compression?
Eq'ing I usually roll off around 28/27 hz, I used to do it at 30 because people banged on about you couldn't hear it and alike, but I have done a coulpe of tunes with the subs going that far down, and you don't hear it, you feel it. And the majority of the big sub systems I have played on seem to be able to handle that far low down.
Compression, not an expert on this by any means, but I have a couple of homemade presets that stick the ratio on around 3.5:1 and the threshold at about -10 and the attack pretty quick. Then just tweak from there.

Any other tips?
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Postby threnody » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:50 pm

I don't use a synth. just generate tones in cool edit and then get to work on eq, filtering, distorting, pitch bending etc.... I doubt it makes much difference as both ways are just using an oscillator tone and adding effects.

As for EQing etc... depens on the sound but a nice dynamic EQ can give some nice timbres to the sound.
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Postby djrq » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:08 pm

I usually use Novation V-Station (VST) for the sub.
With some eq'ing, maybe some PSP Vintage warmer and a little compression.
Or alternately I load up a nice fat 808 kick in Kontakt and eq it to suit.
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Postby aircooled » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:53 pm

I normally use either a Juno 6 or Macbeth M3X. I have no trouble getting huge amounts of sub-bass out of these two, normally I sample them and filter and EQ to suit.

The thing that mainly worries me about sub-bass content is the amount of headroom it takes up, but I suppose there's often not a lot else going on so let it roll!
Do you guys monitor using a sub bass speaker? I monitor on BM15As that are supposed to go down to 40 Hz, don't have a sub in my system so I tend to err on the side of caution.
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Postby djrq » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:31 am

I'm monitoring on my sennhieser HD25's (I'm in an apartment).
(no idea what response goes down to)

Most of the time I have the sub rolling off at about 25hz, and topping out at 80hz and eq everything away from it, give it heaps of room.
Everything else gets cut off at about 110hz, except the kick which will go down to 80hz.
Thats how I do it 90% of the time, but...I taught myself, so I could totally wrong (sonically). :?
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Postby pompende » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:25 am

i am starting with Absynth now. wicked nice software. just draw a sine wave, ya feel me?
its all about the monitors tho. i dont have anything proper in that department. pair of koss headphones (down to like 15 hz or something), but the response isnt even or whatever.
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Postby dleted » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:50 am

@aircooled - Those BM15a's are amazing. They go plenty low enough, I would say they are tops for making bass heavy music on.

I am buying a pair of BM5a's and a sub and should get simular results.


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Postby pete_bubonic » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:30 pm

DJRQ wrote:I'm monitoring on my sennhieser HD25's (I'm in an apartment).
(no idea what response goes down to)

Most of the time I have the sub rolling off at about 25hz, and topping out at 80hz and eq everything away from it, give it heaps of room.
Everything else gets cut off at about 110hz, except the kick which will go down to 80hz.
Thats how I do it 90% of the time, but...I taught myself, so I could totally wrong (sonically). :?


I've always found that the Sennheisers spit out too much bass?! Everyone raves about them, but everytime I have tried them, it just seems to ramp up the bass ridiculously?

With regards to monitors, I have some crappy Behringer Truth B1203 monitors, one of which rattles if it goes below 70 hz. Fucking pain in my arse.
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Postby dogdaze » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:57 pm

pete bubonic wrote:Eq'ing I usually roll off around 28/27 hz, I used to do it at 30 because people banged on about you couldn't hear it and alike, but I have done a coulpe of tunes with the subs going that far down, and you don't hear it, you feel it. And the majority of the big sub systems I have played on seem to be able to handle that far low down.


Good one sharing that knowledge Pete.

pete bubonic wrote:I've always found that the Sennheisers spit out too much bass?! Everyone raves about them, but everytime I have tried them, it just seems to ramp up the bass ridiculously?


This is also my experience, but then again I'm using a HD475 which is a fairly cheap consumer headphone - not very reliable.
(Too much / unreliable bass allegedly is the general problem with headphones though, not only Sennheisers or cheaper ones)

The positive side of this is that my headphone lets me hear the sub frequencies around 35-40 much better than my Alesis monitors. However regarding the real sub-sublow you talk about, 25-35 hz, I'm in the dark with my budget set-up :(
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Postby drewdrops » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:37 pm

gaaaaarr! sub bass, my old enemy still havent sussed this one, usually check the sub holes at the back of my Tannoy Reveals if its pumping out air its a good thing. Referencing against other tunes is a good one, like Vex'd Loefah tunes, theres lots of air but its consistent and strong. It depends on what ur tune is like, you can have a musical sub bass with frequency content up to 250 hz which is more punchy, like the old jungle bass, therefore a light kick is needed, or pure sub 80hz or lower leaving room for a weighty kick at around 100 hz. Side chaining is an option for your kick and sub bass combinations, but dont ask me how im only just getting to grips with it, also a trick ive been playing with is to start the bass a fraction later than the kick like a 1/64 late, or automate the volume to slide in over a 1/64, so the kick hits first immediatly followed by the sub but they appear to hit together, its just the kick sounds first. Its a fecking art form in its self, hope some of this makes sense?!!? :oops:
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Postby j_j » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:08 pm

use ne thing for a sub jus a solid sine will do ...eq it and filter correct n no probs at all ....subs r ur foundation s ..
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Postby sek [espionage] » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:43 pm

Traditionally I used to sample sub a lot.. My friend has a nice old prophet5 that produces some lush tones.

Recently though, I've been using Albino..
Start with an blank patch..
Fire up a couple tracked sine waves and send it to filter 1 (low passed)
1 or 2 saws or triangles (possibly detuned) and send to filter 2 (high passed)
Overdrive filter 2.
Mix a small about of filter 2 into fliter 1 for grunt.
LFO mod to pitch
LFO mod to filter 2
Low pass the entire instrument.

Add a small amount of emu-tube distortion if needed. Compress to taste.
EQ - 24db/oct cut at >28(ish) boost frequency of the tunes key.. (or it's 3rd or 5th depending on what key) cut a pocket for the kick.. boost a bit of umph in the 130-170 range (depending if there is a "midbass" layer in the track or not)
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Postby dj $hy » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:26 am

hz is important tho, you all seem to say thet you go lower than 40hz but anything lower than 40 is just causing stress to the system without hearing any of it.

The other problem is when you get it cut to plastic, I've had lots of tracks that are just TOO LOW. So when you cut them that lower end under 40hz is cut out.It might sound deep in your studio but whne its getting mastered for cutting its a different matter!

This is just my expirence but I cut anything under 40hz on my subs cos I've had so many ppl tell me to. I cant say who is right here but I just go with what I've watched and picked up on the way.
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Postby toxin » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:24 am

i always cut my whole track on the master out at about 38Hz..... this gets rid of the muddyness
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Postby 8bitwonder » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:30 am

been seriouse here but i use a stylaphone and filter
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Postby Jubz » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:16 am

I dont reckon the tb404 has very good lfo automation, is a useful tol thougt to bang otu a b-line on.
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Postby j_j » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:28 am

808 subs all good .
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Postby metalboxproducts » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:01 pm

8bitwonder wrote:been seriouse here but i use a stylaphone and filter


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Postby metalboxproducts » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:04 pm

pretty good for bass. You can automate all the peramiters which is cool

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Postby tes la rok » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:16 am

ideal situation when bassdrum is one octave higher than sub. but like told earier, sidechain is one option. when i program sub-bassline after that i usually check atleast 20 different options 4 bassdrum.
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