The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

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Marsh Mal
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The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Marsh Mal » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:40 am

I notice there is a pretty well established 'Help me make this sound' thread but it seems to be pretty much just based on the more midrange side of things, with anyone asking how to replicate and deeper or darker sounds not getting much attention.

Anyway I thought maybe it'd be a good idea to start a similar thread which gives attention to the more Youngsta type sound as there is a few techniques I could really do with having an insight into and maybe others would enjoy finding some stuff out too.

Im not trying to steal other peoples exact sounds but would definitely like to learn how to form the structure of certain sounds. Im currently working in Ableton Live and using Albino, Absynth, Kontakt and Massive to make beats if that helps.

Anyway, i'll start..

Can anyone explain how i might be able to make a similar sound to that in J:Kenzo's 'Ruff House'?



Im looking for the sound straight after the drop at 53, kind of a progressive drawn out filter sound. Ive been told that it could be a lowpassed saw with an enveloped pitch and sine underneath, but any more info on how to liven up and make the sound more interesting (what effects, filters etc) would be much appretiated.

And also the sound used by Vivek in his track 'Roots',

again it comes in straight after the drop, sounds like maybe another filter. The one that sound asif its drawing upwards, if that makes sense.



Another question I have is how to keep your bass strong and powerful when working in low octaves. For example, in Breakage's 'Rain', LXONE's 'Down' or the bass pattern 27 seconds into The Goat Stare. These all seem to be hitting down to around 30Hz and remaining heavy, but whevever I try to create a super low bass with a straight sine it tends to lose alot of power. Tending to make the sub blow air, if that makes sense. What should i be doing to avoid this, is it to do with resampling?

Feel free to post any questions you might have, I hope we can make this thread helpful.

And remember.. please keep this thread filth-free! :W:

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JFK
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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by JFK » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:01 am

This is a fantastic idea for a thread! :)

Im at work ATM so I cant check the videos but I'll have a gander when I get home.

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by oprs » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:18 am

finally a thread that isnt COMPLETE bullocks.
hopefully this won't turn into some stupid shit thread.

OP gj. like to see how this turns out
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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by wub » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:47 am

Marsh Mal wrote:
Can anyone explain how i might be able to make a similar sound to that in J:Kenzo's 'Ruff House'?



Im looking for the sound straight after the drop at 53, kind of a progressive drawn out filter sound. Ive been told that it could be a lowpassed saw with an enveloped pitch and sine underneath, but any more info on how to liven up and make the sound more interesting (what effects, filters etc) would be much appretiated.

Ok, you've got the main crux of it down. The most important aspect of trying to recreate that sound is the long attack on the synth itself, so that it kinda creeps in as opposed to ZOMG THERE IS NOW SYNTH meaning a more organic feel. Filtering wise, I'm a bit stumped. I'm tempted to go ahead and recommend this filter VST or that, but tbh any chump can fire off VST names so let's try something new; z-plane filters.

Z-plane filtering, in a nutshell, is a way of getting a more organic feel to your filters. Imagine a filter effecting the sound on 2 axis', X & Y. Now add a third, Z. Ok, that make bollock all sense now I read it back. Imagine you've got 2 complex filter types setup, and you're using a single parameter to sweep between them.

You can recreate this in FL (of sorts) by running your synth pattern out into a mixer channel, and on that mixer channel having 2 seperate filter plugins. Again, am using filters as an example, but it works well with other effects once you've got the gist and want to start fucking around.

- Link the dry/wet volume effect dial on the right hand side next to both filters to a single MIDI controller parameter; jog wheel or rotary is a good one.
- Now, make sure the REMOVE CONFLICTS box at the top of the LINK TO CONTROLLER dialogue box is left unchecked.
- Set one of the dry/wet volumes as normal, and the other as inverted, so INPUT and 1-INPUT respectively.
- Linked to the jog wheel/rotary, that should mean that as you twist the knob one should go up and the other should go down. Leaving it in the middle will have 50% wet of both.

Fiddle with the parameters on each filter until you've got a pleasing sound, then try automating the input of the master controlling rotary/wheel so that you can sweep between the two filter states as you go. Usual guidelines apply with anything I put on here i.e. don't take it as gospel, experiment, do things different ways etc etc, bounce always bounce your output to see what works and build up your sound library etc etc.

Note that this is not z-plane filtering in the truest sense of the world. Z-plane filters are found within the EMU samplers and tbh try as I might I've not found an accurate representation of them within FL, so have gone about bodging my own together as per the above.

For more info on z-plane filters;

SOS: Synth School, Part 8: Wave Sequencing To Z-Plane Synthesis - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/a ... chool.html
DOA: wtf are z-plane filters? - http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.ph ... adid=21985
DNBF: Z-Plane Filters? - http://dnbforum.com/showthread.php?1005 ... ne-Filters
KVR: Z-Plane Filter - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1705168

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by kingGhost » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Nice info ^

I'd agree that slowing the attack on your bass, synth, and pretty much everything cept your snare and percs def helps create a "dungeon" sound.

I'm also interested in how to create bass at lower frequencies without losing power. Particularly in Reason, since that's what I produce with, exclusively. Right now I'm using a Maelstrom synth to make sub bass, with a EQ attached to smooth the bass out. I'll sidechain into it or attach a subtractor for an LFO sometimes, but other than that it's just a pure sine being run through Maelstrom.
Last edited by kingGhost on Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marsh Mal
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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Marsh Mal » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:31 pm

wub wrote:
Ok, you've got the main crux of it down. The most important aspect of trying to recreate that sound is the long attack on the synth itself, so that it kinda creeps in as opposed to ZOMG THERE IS NOW SYNTH meaning a more organic feel. Filtering wise, I'm a bit stumped. I'm tempted to go ahead and recommend this filter VST or that, but tbh any chump can fire off VST names so let's try something new; z-plane filters.

Z-plane filtering, in a nutshell, is a way of getting a more organic feel to your filters. Imagine a filter effecting the sound on 2 axis', X & Y. Now add a third, Z. Ok, that make bollock all sense now I read it back. Imagine you've got 2 complex filter types setup, and you're using a single parameter to sweep between them.

You can recreate this in FL (of sorts) by running your synth pattern out into a mixer channel, and on that mixer channel having 2 seperate filter plugins. Again, am using filters as an example, but it works well with other effects once you've got the gist and want to start fucking around.

- Link the dry/wet volume effect dial on the right hand side next to both filters to a single MIDI controller parameter; jog wheel or rotary is a good one.
- Now, make sure the REMOVE CONFLICTS box at the top of the LINK TO CONTROLLER dialogue box is left unchecked.
- Set one of the dry/wet volumes as normal, and the other as inverted, so INPUT and 1-INPUT respectively.
- Linked to the jog wheel/rotary, that should mean that as you twist the knob one should go up and the other should go down. Leaving it in the middle will have 50% wet of both.

Fiddle with the parameters on each filter until you've got a pleasing sound, then try automating the input of the master controlling rotary/wheel so that you can sweep between the two filter states as you go. Usual guidelines apply with anything I put on here i.e. don't take it as gospel, experiment, do things different ways etc etc, bounce always bounce your output to see what works and build up your sound library etc etc.

Note that this is not z-plane filtering in the truest sense of the world. Z-plane filters are found within the EMU samplers and tbh try as I might I've not found an accurate representation of them within FL, so have gone about bodging my own together as per the above.

For more info on z-plane filters;

SOS: Synth School, Part 8: Wave Sequencing To Z-Plane Synthesis - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/a ... chool.html
DOA: wtf are z-plane filters? - http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.ph ... adid=21985
DNBF: Z-Plane Filters? - http://dnbforum.com/showthread.php?1005 ... ne-Filters
KVR: Z-Plane Filter - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1705168
Thanks alot for the information, that looks really interesting. Cant wait to get experimenting tonight!

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Mutiny » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:17 pm

Great thread, will definitely have something to add/ask when i get home. :4:

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by hasezwei » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:30 pm

z-plane filters... damn i've been reading bout them on DOA a lot recently. especially because billain mentioned them as a key to his sound design in the Q&A.

so it's just crossfading between filtertypes, over time or some other parameter? sounds pretty simple tbh

totally OT edit: man i love that vivek tune but why is the bass panned to the left? i get earache when i listen to constant non-centered bass frequencies on headphones :x
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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by s3f » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:41 pm

don't know if this has anything to do with anything but x-y-controllers can also be used quite nicely for that z-plane stuff *off to read on KVR*

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Mannyyyyy » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:10 pm

if you want the true sound of a zplane filter get an emu sampler and bam, sexy filters :D

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by hasezwei » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:25 pm

Mannyyyyy wrote:if you want the true sound of a zplane filter get an emu sampler and bam, sexy filters :D
pretty expensive eh ;)

billain said something about emulating them by having 6 filters modulating each other but that's about as informative as "resample a reese" sounded to me a few months ago :lol:
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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Mannyyyyy » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:45 pm

hasezwei wrote:
Mannyyyyy wrote:if you want the true sound of a zplane filter get an emu sampler and bam, sexy filters :D
pretty expensive eh ;)

billain said something about emulating them by having 6 filters modulating each other but that's about as informative as "resample a reese" sounded to me a few months ago :lol:
ah yes in his q&a, mostly im pretty sure he has a filter automating how another filter works and so on to get crazy morphs cause theyre all interacting with each other

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Dyssomnia » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:07 pm

Soo, I've asked this one a couple of times already, but I'm interested in the following sound:
http://soundcloud.com/thelem/thelem-distilled-clip
It's right after the drop at 0:28 I guess.
I've been told that these sounds are just reese basses with an automated filter, just as in Foreseen by Freeze & LX One, but in this song, it's totally different.
I do believe there is an automated filter, but the basic sound is def not a reese bass, so my question is: what is it?
I'm using Reason & Ableton and seem to have went in a good direction by using squares.
Thanks.

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by legend4ry » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:19 pm

:(....

Didn't you try this thread last week !?

Its the only exciting sound in Dubstep at the moment but even saying that - theres only a handful of people who don't sound like rip offs of everyone else... Its already saturated so look for a new angle.

For the record though.....

Dyssomnia wrote:Soo, I've asked this one a couple of times already, but I'm interested in the following sound:
http://soundcloud.com/thelem/thelem-distilled-clip
It's right after the drop at 0:28 I guess.
I've been told that these sounds are just reese basses with an automated filter, just as in Foreseen by Freeze & LX One, but in this song, it's totally different.
I do believe there is an automated filter, but the basic sound is def not a reese bass, so my question is: what is it?
I'm using Reason & Ableton and seem to have went in a good direction by using squares.
Thanks.

Thelem generally just plays around with re-sampled sounds and effects till he has something he likes - sure, theres more technical knowledge than that but its just resampling, really. Like 90% of the "dungeon" sounds.
Soulstep wrote: My point is i just wanna hear more vibes
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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Dyssomnia » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:54 pm

Instead of most brosteppers, I will use technical details and won't copy the 'technique' straight to my patch and tell everyone I figured out a new technique.
Originality is very important to me, that's why I didn't make any songs yet, they contain some nice techniques, but considering the fact I don't want to be just another producer, I never finish my songs.
It's not like I wanna 'steal' his technique, I think knowing all of these small details just gives me better insights in production in general and enhances my opportunities of creating decent and original songs in the, hopefully near, future.

(I already figured out that I should resample, but thanks anyways!)

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by TRNSPLNT » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:08 pm

Dyssomnia wrote: the fact I don't want to be just another producer, I never finish my songs..
thats what im like.. but its very frustrating. finished my first two tracks in a year or so recently, and still nowhere near happy

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Steve_French » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:06 pm

There was a thread like this a couple weeks back, that i said i was gonna post a few patches for, but i forgot, so if i remember, i will post a few patches, the types of sound are the sort of sub sounds, that sp use's, the 'wouummm' type sound. i will get round to it for those that are still waitin

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by Dyssomnia » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:15 pm

goodeh wrote:There was a thread like this a couple weeks back, that i said i was gonna post a few patches for, but i forgot, so if i remember, i will post a few patches, the types of sound are the sort of sub sounds, that sp use's, the 'wouummm' type sound. i will get round to it for those that are still waitin
I wish there were more people like you on the forum! ;)
Got my own interpretation of the sound and would love to see how yours differ from mine :)

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by TRNSPLNT » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:23 pm

goodeh wrote:There was a thread like this a couple weeks back, that i said i was gonna post a few patches for, but i forgot, so if i remember, i will post a few patches, the types of sound are the sort of sub sounds, that sp use's, the 'wouummm' type sound. i will get round to it for those that are still waitin
PM me when you do bro :)

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Re: The 'help me make that dungeon sound' thread

Post by 65L » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:41 pm

I tried to make an spmc/kryptic minds/icicle style sub bass in massive recently, here is the ksd file.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zh6nsb

basically i just spent time assigning the macro one knob to a bunch of parameters with one goal in mind, which was to be able to morph from a standard sub drone to a weighty, metallic "wooump" sound with the twist of that macro control. so if you open up the ksd file, you'll find that the 0-50 percent range of the macro 1 knob achieves this sound pretty well.

then i put a few midi notes on c3 and created an envelope automation of the macro 1 knob giving it that long attack, and boom, i has dungeon sound :U:
Wwoooooooiiiiiiiii

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