Question regarding sound design in FM synthesis

[ctang]

Hi, I'm just wondering if sound design in FM synthesis is heavily based on experimentation, or is there some sort of rule/formula that could be followed to ojectively create sounds. So far I've been fiddling around with the synth in an experimental trial and error sort of way, iif I like it I keep it if I don't I throw it to the curb.

I'm just really frusterated because it feels like I have no clue what I'm doing, I'm just randomly switching on carriers and modulating them, routing and stuff

[jrisreal]

pretty much trial and error for me. but you gotta understand how it works. once thats done, you can go off and experiment

[buttock]

start with one modulator and one carrier. If the modulator is pitched higher than the carrier the sound gets sharper, if pitched belowed the tone gets more "woody". Try to relate the pitches of in ratios like 2:1, 3:2 , etc. A ratio like 5:4 will give a more metallic sound than 2:1. Reducing the level of the modulator by an envelope will sound similar to closing a filter.

[wub]

Hi, I'm just wondering if sound design in FM synthesis is heavily based on experimentation, or is there some sort of rule/formula that could be followed to ojectively create sounds. So far I've been fiddling around with the synth in an experimental trial and error sort of way, iif I like it I keep it if I don't I throw it to the curb.

I'm just really frusterated because it feels like I have no clue what I'm doing, I'm just randomly switching on carriers and modulating them, routing and stuff

An alternative technique is to find a preset that you like, then try and recreate that patch from one of the empty default user slots on your synth. I learnt more about Massive by 'building' my own version of Brutal Electro than I did from watching YouTube videos.

[RandoRando]

FM synthesis, so i understand that carriers sound are affected by modulators, and i understand that there can be endless algorithms, and its just about what carriers you want being modulated by modulators, and i understand that each carrier and modulator has a envelope, i understand that the ratio "doubles"? the "times by" (multiplication) factor of that particular waveform, and i understand the hertz options lowers the wave cycles, does this mean i understand FM synthesis? or does understanding it mean, "hmmm, this song needs a flute in it, *creates flute sound in fm8 in 1 minute*, i can create any sound in my head in a matter of minutes because i understand FM synthesis." ??????

TL;DR what does it mean to understand FM synthesis, cause i really want to get into fm8, but i dont get what im missing? i know what each knob does, and what each separate section is for?

[RandoRando]

bemp

[ctang]

FM synthesis, so i understand that carriers sound are affected by modulators, and i understand that there can be endless algorithms, and its just about what carriers you want being modulated by modulators, and i understand that each carrier and modulator has a envelope, i understand that the ratio "doubles"? the "times by" (multiplication) factor of that particular waveform, and i understand the hertz options lowers the wave cycles, does this mean i understand FM synthesis? or does understanding it mean, "hmmm, this song needs a flute in it, *creates flute sound in fm8 in 1 minute*, i can create any sound in my head in a matter of minutes because i understand FM synthesis." ??????

TL;DR what does it mean to understand FM synthesis, cause i really want to get into fm8, but i dont get what im missing? i know what each knob does, and what each separate section is for?

Thats exactly what i was wondering, is it possible to understand fm synthesis beyond the synthesizer's knobs and routing to a point where you can create sounds YOU want to hear. For example rando mentioned the flute, can you be like , by going by this formula i know a flute has this frequency and waveforum, then in FM I compose these waves modulating this on certian ratios and stuff to recreate a flutes frequency, And voila a flute sound.

[RandoRando]

Bump for an amazing thread

[makemerich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRazfCjn ... 26E76E5647

[buttock]

FM synthesis, so i understand that carriers sound are affected by modulators, and i understand that there can be endless algorithms, and its just about what carriers you want being modulated by modulators, and i understand that each carrier and modulator has a envelope, i understand that the ratio "doubles"? the "times by" (multiplication) factor of that particular waveform, and i understand the hertz options lowers the wave cycles, does this mean i understand FM synthesis? or does understanding it mean, "hmmm, this song needs a flute in it, *creates flute sound in fm8 in 1 minute*, i can create any sound in my head in a matter of minutes because i understand FM synthesis." ??????

TL;DR what does it mean to understand FM synthesis, cause i really want to get into fm8, but i dont get what im missing? i know what each knob does, and what each separate section is for?

Thats exactly what i was wondering, is it possible to understand fm synthesis beyond the synthesizer's knobs and routing to a point where you can create sounds YOU want to hear. For example rando mentioned the flute, can you be like , by going by this formula i know a flute has this frequency and waveforum, then in FM I compose these waves modulating this on certian ratios and stuff to recreate a flutes frequency, And voila a flute sound.

I think this is possible, but i takes a bit of time. A flute will be a pretty difficult task to realize with FM, cause a flute should sound kind of dull and noisy, something wich is achievable with a low passed square and some white noise. But piano like sounds, moving pads, basses (NOT Wobbles) can be constructed in a controlled manner, but it is a long way to go. I'm still practising.

[RandoRando]

what are some other good fm synths besides fm8 and sytrus? ive had sytrus since like 2005 and still have no idea how to use it.

[buttock]

big tick rhino is another good one. But it won't be any easier to learn fm with this one than with sytrus or fm8.
I would begin with one modulator and one carrier. NO Filters and both strictly sine waves. Than see what happens when the modulator frequency is twice, three times or half the frequency of the carrier. This will give you some basic idea which timbres can be constructed by fm. The next step would be using an envelope or lfo to control the amount of the modulation. You'll get sounds which resemble a modulated filter others will be different. After you have an idea what is happening in this setting, you can experiment with different waveforms, parallal or serial modulation, layering different modulator-carrier setups etc. But important is in my opinionen to start as simple as possible.

[wub]

big tick rhino is another good one. But it won't be any easier to learn fm with this one than with sytrus or fm8.

This, basically. You're better off learning the synths you have as opposed to getting a new one, IMO.


Try the ImageLine Sytrus forum, pretty spot on - http://fls.e-officedirect.com/forum/vie ... php?f=1200

[bassinine]

operator is actually an amazing synth. all of my old songs used operator completely... now i use it when i want this particular sound.

Rob papen's blue can do FM, and is amazing. FM8, Sytrus, and rhino are all good too.

example: http://soundcloud.com/bassinine/moonwatcher
http://soundcloud.com/bassinine/grazing-and-shoegazing

[daft cunt]

I have a pdf book called FM synthesis & applications. You can go trial & error but a fine book like this will give you a better understanding of what's going on and how to get interesting results.
PM if you're interested.

[ctang]

Is it the one written by John chowning?

[hifi]

x to the y to the z then back to y then repeats? notice how I managed to fit in a good bar right there. it is copyrighted so dont try stealin it ye

[daft cunt]

Is it the one written by John chowning?

Yep

[BeastModeForDummies]

an amazing tutorial thats helped me dive deeper into fm synth gl man

http://blackhole12.deviantart.com/art/S ... 1-75704794

[like spinning plates]

This is a really nice introductory/tutorial as well:

http://insidesynthesis.blogspot.com/200 ... art-1.html