anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

hardware, software, tips and tricks
Forum rules
By using this "Production" sub-forum, you acknowledge that you have read, understood and agreed with our terms of use for this site. Click HERE to read them. If you do not agree to our terms of use, you must exit this site immediately. We do not accept any responsibility for the content, submissions, information or links contained herein. Users posting content here, do so completely at their own risk.

Quick Link to Feedback Forum
User avatar
-[2]DAY_-
Posts: 2797
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 4:43 am

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by -[2]DAY_- » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:12 pm

they are clearly fucking stnuc who don't have a clue about the environment they exist in... people who dis sampling culture, hip hop and EDM like that are just closed off to it, don't listen to it, pretend they're better because they play guitars

if u send me the song i'll send u back a .wav of a comparable piano sample that's close but not too close to their song, i've gotten pretty good at recording my buddy's grand, and he's got insane chops so he could prob play anything.
Then you could drop it in the project and send them a copy telling them to eat a dick.
Soundcloud
SOME SONGS AND TUNES :|

VirtualMark
Posts: 1821
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:15 am
Location: UK

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by VirtualMark » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:56 pm

come on mate, you have to tell us who the band was :)

User avatar
kaiori breathe
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:26 am
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Contact:

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by kaiori breathe » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:22 am

Pro tip: They could have easily been polite and asked you not to release it in diplomatic terms, instead they threatened you with legal action, with that in mind I wouldn't tell anybody what band it was, no matter how many people ask, don't reward that kind of in your face attitude by giving them attention.

User avatar
WereWolf
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:19 pm

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by WereWolf » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:41 am

snick01 wrote:
arktrix wrote:
snick01 wrote:Id put it on as many sites as possible for free download and email them all the links just in spite. probably paying with fire that though haha.
Or he could be an adult, take the hit and scrap it or re-record the part for himself.
:roll: so now im an adult, people can treat me however they want and i will just take it, because i am now an adult. :6: :a:

sounds fun
Okay. It's not people treating you "however they want". This guy stole something from someone elses song, and they told him they do not want him to do that. Which is perfectley fine, and they did NOTHING wrong. They're not treating him terribly. All that stuff you said you would do seems very childish...
Image

VirtualMark
Posts: 1821
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:15 am
Location: UK

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by VirtualMark » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:11 am

WereWolf wrote:This guy stole something from someone elses song
so they were the first people to use this combination of notes/chords? the first people to create this sound?

truth is you don't know any of that, and common courtesy doesn't cost anything.

as far as i'm concerned he didn't steal a thing - he made a tune then ASKED FOR PERMISSION to use it. he hasn't released it, as he was denied the permission. so what exactly has been stolen?

deadly_habit
Posts: 22980
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:41 am
Location: MURRICA

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by deadly_habit » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:16 am

like it or not sampling without permission is stealing

User avatar
Kilo beats
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:31 am
Location: South West UK

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Kilo beats » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:28 pm

i dont want this thread to turn into a moralls of sampling thred. i really do see both sides of the argument, which is why i asked for permission, was just a bit annoyed i got such a reply from a "well established" band.

the song i used was nox arcania - crystal palace


User avatar
Kilo beats
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:31 am
Location: South West UK

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Kilo beats » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:30 pm

wait... i just posted one of there songs online without asking.. is that legal?

User avatar
Sparxy
Posts: 1188
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:26 pm
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Contact:

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Sparxy » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:39 pm

Unless you are making any financial gain from it you are not breaking the law
this band sound like dicks!!

User avatar
efence
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by efence » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:23 pm

f!@# rights, f%$# law. post it on every forum for free download under different production name. then go occupy your local civic center. Maybe burn a police cruiser while your at it.

VirtualMark
Posts: 1821
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:15 am
Location: UK

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by VirtualMark » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:53 pm

Kilo beats wrote:i dont want this thread to turn into a moralls of sampling thred. i really do see both sides of the argument, which is why i asked for permission, was just a bit annoyed i got such a reply from a "well established" band.

the song i used was nox arcania - crystal palace

should be pretty straightforward to play the notes from this in another instrument. i can see why they're moaning, its about all this songs got. :lol:

User avatar
Sparxy
Posts: 1188
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:26 pm
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Contact:

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Sparxy » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:45 pm

Yeah you can recreate that in any synth easily I reckon

User avatar
Kilo beats
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:31 am
Location: South West UK

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Kilo beats » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:09 pm

yeah, lol i could remake it easy, and have more control with how it fits in the mix. but whats the point? id still be "stealing" it

stuff it.... i think thats what ill do today... i got a nice new synth plug that i only been messing about with, may as well put it to use.

then ital be an original work, no hassle or legal fees, and can go on my first LP no problem.


cheers again for the responces peoples!

User avatar
Jas0n
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:57 am

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Jas0n » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:33 pm

How long is the sample? In the states, you can have up to seven seconds of anything you want and there's nothing they can do about it. (Also possible - US law doesn't apply.)
Image

User avatar
Soulstep
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:50 pm
Location: Wolverhampton
Contact:

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Soulstep » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:37 pm

as bad as it sounds, you should have never told them about it

Datsik - Firepower = Big L
Jack Dixon - Somebody said = mario winans
James Blake - Cmyk = kelis(i hate you so much right now)
Tunnidge - Dark Skies = Blade Runner

i don't know if any of them got samples cleared but i highly doubt it.
In the normal course of events, when permission to sample is given there will be a fee for the privilege. The value of a sample, as well as the method of payment, will be determined by a range of factors, including:

The notoriety of the original record and prominence of the sampled work in the new record.
Puff Daddy’s ode to Biggie Smalls, ‘I’ll Be Missing You’, sampled the worldwide Police smash ‘Every Breath You Take’, thus sacrificing £500,000 in publishing royalties to its author, Sting.

The likelihood of your success with your record. The territory, format of distribution, status of the artist and marketing spend all affect how your new version will be perceived, and therefore how much you’ll be charged for the sample.

Contrary to popular myth, samples aren’t billed on a per-second basis like some phone calls — nor are they free when under three seconds long. The overall impact of the sample, together with all relevant commercial factors, means that each sample is evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

For the dance producer looking to issue a limited self-release, it’s best to obtain a buy-out of all rights in the sample for a one-off flat fee. This would allow the producer to release the record and not incur further expense were the track to be picked up by a major label or licensed on compilations worldwide.
A major artist will be able to charge top dollar for the right to sample their work.
They’ll probably expect an advance payment running into thousands of pounds, as well as future royalties of approximately 1-5 percent on every record sold. These additional costs should be factored into your budget for the release.
Similarly, a stubborn or opportunistic publisher may demand 50-100 percent of the publishing income for the privilege of using their words or music.
From Sound On Sound Magazine

cloak and dagger
Posts: 1146
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: Sittin' on the curb debatin' how to get it percolatin'
Contact:

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by cloak and dagger » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:53 pm

Jas0n wrote:How long is the sample? In the states, you can have up to seven seconds of anything you want and there's nothing they can do about it. (Also possible - US law doesn't apply.)

that is definitely not true

Izomorph
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by Izomorph » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:05 am

Ouch man. Nox Arcana? Yeah do your research before you go sampling indiscriminately. It's not a band at the moment by the way, it's one guy named Joseph Vargo. The nasty response you got was most certainly not from a greedy corporate record label, it was from Vargo himself. Nox Arcana's albums are published by Vargo's own company, Monolith Graphics.

I discovered Nox Arcana years ago in my er..."goth" phase. In a way I admire him. He writes all his music, markets and distributes it on his own label, creates the album artwork himself and writes detailed backstories for each concept album. He's an accomplished artist and a decent author as well. He's had so many people rip off his music without permission that I can understand why he's touchy about it. To produce as much as he does requires serious effort, so I can almost understand not wanting your hard work to go to embellishing a musician's work whom you don't really appreciate.

Yes, Vargo has no respect for electronic music and he's not at all secretive about it. Unfortunately for you, there's nothing you can do about his decision. It's his work, he has all the rights to it, and if he doesn't want to let you sample it that's his prerogative. I'm not excusing his rudeness at all. You actually bothered to ask for permission and he was a jackass about it. You can do what others have suggested and rerecord it yourself, but why not one-up him and improve on his own melody? Just to prove that we're not all talentless thieves or whatever.

What I find most ironic of all though is that Vargo has mentioned in interviews that he does use a DAW and midi controller for some of his songs. He has never (to my knowledge) specified which one. Yes, he composes on the piano and has a number of acoustic instruments at his disposal but whatever. On top of that, I find it impossible to believe that he creates ALL of his sounds by himself. The hooks and melodies, yes. But his music is full of chanting, howls, creaky doors slamming, eerie cackles, all kinds of things that must have been sampled from somewhere. He's good, but he can't be that good.

Screw him. If it's good and you believe in it, try to find a way to make that tune work without his sample. There are a lot of sites that have piano samples that are free or dirt cheap. You shouldn't be limited by anyone's arrogant hostility to electronic music.

User avatar
ShadowMachine
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:32 am
Location: London, Canada
Contact:

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by ShadowMachine » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:26 am

I GOT AN AMAZING IDEA!!!....

PUT THE STEMS UP AND LET EVERYONE REMIX IT....

make a massive ...massive free release...and send it to the band....
that...to me at least, is perfect, absolute perfect way, to say screw you and cram it with wallnuts!

there prolly just pissed cuz your tunes better then theres and will most likely get more sales lol

LONG LIVE THE STEP!
“Our generation has an incredible amount of realism, yet at the same time it loves to complain and not really change. Because, if it does change, then it won't have anything to complain about.”
Soundcloud

nnny
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:39 pm
Location: Northern Ireland - Newtownards

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by nnny » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:45 pm

Izomorph wrote:Ouch man. Nox Arcana? Yeah do your research before you go sampling indiscriminately. It's not a band at the moment by the way, it's one guy named Joseph Vargo. The nasty response you got was most certainly not from a greedy corporate record label, it was from Vargo himself. Nox Arcana's albums are published by Vargo's own company, Monolith Graphics.

I discovered Nox Arcana years ago in my er..."goth" phase. In a way I admire him. He writes all his music, markets and distributes it on his own label, creates the album artwork himself and writes detailed backstories for each concept album. He's an accomplished artist and a decent author as well. He's had so many people rip off his music without permission that I can understand why he's touchy about it. To produce as much as he does requires serious effort, so I can almost understand not wanting your hard work to go to embellishing a musician's work whom you don't really appreciate.

Yes, Vargo has no respect for electronic music and he's not at all secretive about it. Unfortunately for you, there's nothing you can do about his decision. It's his work, he has all the rights to it, and if he doesn't want to let you sample it that's his prerogative. I'm not excusing his rudeness at all. You actually bothered to ask for permission and he was a jackass about it. You can do what others have suggested and rerecord it yourself, but why not one-up him and improve on his own melody? Just to prove that we're not all talentless thieves or whatever.

What I find most ironic of all though is that Vargo has mentioned in interviews that he does use a DAW and midi controller for some of his songs. He has never (to my knowledge) specified which one. Yes, he composes on the piano and has a number of acoustic instruments at his disposal but whatever. On top of that, I find it impossible to believe that he creates ALL of his sounds by himself. The hooks and melodies, yes. But his music is full of chanting, howls, creaky doors slamming, eerie cackles, all kinds of things that must have been sampled from somewhere. He's good, but he can't be that good.

Screw him. If it's good and you believe in it, try to find a way to make that tune work without his sample. There are a lot of sites that have piano samples that are free or dirt cheap. You shouldn't be limited by anyone's arrogant hostility to electronic music.
I really can't offer anything than what people already have, but this is a good post...
Improve his own melody, definitely should be doing that!

MaZa1
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:21 pm

Re: anyone here Copyright law savvy? $150,000 fine threat

Post by MaZa1 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:32 pm

Just re-create the melody. No one can prove you copied it. Just say you played your piano and got this melody in your head.
If they sue you, ask them to prove they own that melody/ keys. If they play that track and say they have used it before you, then just say maybe they have copied it from someone else.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests