Key of sample/song..

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123kidd
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Key of sample/song..

Post by 123kidd » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:30 pm

Is there any way to tell if something(sample) is in key? Is it possible for someone without background in music theory to tell? Or the key of a song/sound? I've always just used my ears to judge if something sounds good or not.
Also i just want to add that this forum is amazing! Tons of quality info here. Started almost a year ago and have learnt a bit from here.
Thanks

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legend4ry
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by legend4ry » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:32 pm

Learn the "rules" to scales. Try to replay the notesby trial and error then from there work out which scale/key the sample is in is the only way without any theory knowledge I can think of.

There is things like G-tune which give you a rough idea of notes: http://www.gvst.co.uk/gtune.htm
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B-Frank
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by B-Frank » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:02 am

Probably shouldn't encourage cheating yet I'm going to do it anyway...

I use software "mixed in key" that tells me the key of a track... I've also used Rapid Evolution's key gathering tool also that one is free...

I will point out however that they aren't always completely accurate and are not a complete substitute for working it out yourself. I haven't ever used the software for production reasons though mind you, I only ever do it so I can have the keys for all my tracks for when I DJ as I am a great believer in Harmonic Mixing.
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legend4ry
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by legend4ry » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:21 am

What makes that cheating?

I rip my vinyl and use a bpm analyzer if the BPM seems a bit funny in a track.

Often times i'll use the feature in FLstudio what tells me all the notes in a scale if I am unsure if a note is right or not for the key.

I use the note-finding in Amplitube to see if its the detuning of a synth not making it work in a track...


These are all things we have access to us as producers and DJs of the digital era...It doesn't make your music is any better or worse.. No one knows I did all this stuff (until I just announced it) because I am to lazy to learn how things sound, count beats and memorize every scale key for key.

No one has ever said to make good music you need to know X amount of things so its not cheating.


/rant
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dubbyconqueror
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by dubbyconqueror » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:32 am

legend4ry wrote:What makes that cheating?

I rip my vinyl and use a bpm analyzer if the BPM seems a bit funny in a track.

Often times i'll use the feature in FLstudio what tells me all the notes in a scale if I am unsure if a note is right or not for the key.

I use the note-finding in Amplitube to see if its the detuning of a synth not making it work in a track...


These are all things we have access to us as producers and DJs of the digital era...It doesn't make your music is any better or worse.. No one knows I did all this stuff (until I just announced it) because I am to lazy to learn how things sound, count beats and memorize every scale key for key.

No one has ever said to make good music you need to know X amount of things so its not cheating.


/rant
I agree with this. We have different methods and opportunities available now than people did 20 years ago, but this isn't a bad thing, this is progress. Technology has improved almost exponentially in the past few decades and what we can do now was almost unimaginable back then. Sure, its not how the old greats did it, but if they had these opportunities would they have taken them? Of course, because they'd realize that it only helps them create with less needless hassle and wasted time.

123kidd
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by 123kidd » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:03 am

Thanks for the quick reply's guys.
So the key of a song is really just the scale it is using? So a song in the key of E-Minor uses the scale of E-Minor? Also are scales and chord progressions essentially the same thing? Just trying to wrap my head around a bit of theory.

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frankiegrimes
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by frankiegrimes » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:21 am

The key is the scale it's using. (Nearly) all the notes used will be in that scale.

In a key, there are 7 chords, each starting on one of the notes of the scale, and made up only of notes in the scale. A chord progression is just a series of chords of this scale.

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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by legend4ry » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:03 am

123kidd wrote:Thanks for the quick reply's guys.
So the key of a song is really just the scale it is using? So a song in the key of E-Minor uses the scale of E-Minor? Also are scales and chord progressions essentially the same thing? Just trying to wrap my head around a bit of theory.
The key of E-minor is the minor scale in E.

Meaning a scale is a rule;

The key is what root note your scale is in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_(chord)

http://www.piano-lessons-info.com/under ... hords.html


Here is a web application to help you with scales and chords.

http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/vpc/piano_chords.htm

Your terminology was a little wrong.
frankiegrimes wrote:The key is the scale it's using. (Nearly) all the notes used will be in that scale.

In a key, there are 7 chords, each starting on one of the notes of the scale, and made up only of notes in the scale. A chord progression is just a series of chords of this scale.
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by cloak and dagger » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:07 am

legend4ry wrote: No one knows I did all this stuff (until I just announced it)

CHEATER!!!



anyway, I'm gonna try that Rapid Evolution thing out soon; I just got a Kaossilator for live sets and honestly don't feel like manually figuring out what key all of my tunes are in (especially since a lot of my sets are adlib)

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dubbyconqueror
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by dubbyconqueror » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:09 am

Keep in mind also, that some songs will change key or have occasional accidentals (notes outside of the main scale), so don't be too strict with yourself. As long as you have a good idea of what's going on you can break the rules, as long as it sounds good and all works together.

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B-Frank
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by B-Frank » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:22 pm

legend4ry wrote:What makes that cheating?

I rip my vinyl and use a bpm analyzer if the BPM seems a bit funny in a track.

Often times i'll use the feature in FLstudio what tells me all the notes in a scale if I am unsure if a note is right or not for the key.

I use the note-finding in Amplitube to see if its the detuning of a synth not making it work in a track...


These are all things we have access to us as producers and DJs of the digital era...It doesn't make your music is any better or worse.. No one knows I did all this stuff (until I just announced it) because I am to lazy to learn how things sound, count beats and memorize every scale key for key.

No one has ever said to make good music you need to know X amount of things so its not cheating.


/rant
Grab a fridge and chill your beef. I said cheating tongue in cheek. I did actually state the fact that I do it myself.
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Basic A
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by Basic A » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:00 pm

If any of you use FLStudio, this is like the most hidden feature in the program...

Load sample you need the key of as an audio clip > click the little dropdown in the top of the audio clip, hit sample > edit... edison will open, will have your waveform in it... right click on the waveform, hit 'convert to score and dump to piano roll'... go back to your audio clip, itll have loads of shizz on the piano roll... Enable chord helpers + enable the displaying scale feature, hover over the piano roll, in our upper panel area under the save button, itll say the key of the sample.
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B-Frank
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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by B-Frank » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:29 pm

Basic A wrote:If any of you use FLStudio, this is like the most hidden feature in the program...

Load sample you need the key of as an audio clip > click the little dropdown in the top of the audio clip, hit sample > edit... edison will open, will have your waveform in it... right click on the waveform, hit 'convert to score and dump to piano roll'... go back to your audio clip, itll have loads of shizz on the piano roll... Enable chord helpers + enable the displaying scale feature, hover over the piano roll, in our upper panel area under the save button, itll say the key of the sample.
Gwarn'. Will test that out when I get in. Gold star for you, I'm impressed.
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Something TOTALLY different. Really enjoyed this badboy and the melodies.

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Re: Key of sample/song..

Post by bassinine » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:06 pm

yeah, ends justify the means. it doesn't matter if you obtained your bpm, or key, as long as you get it and use it properly to achieve a desired goal.

i still open up traktor to count bpm if i'm having trouble.

HOWEVER: try using SUB BASS to find out what key a song is (have a sample, run through different notes on your sub bass, and when you find a note that sounds good along with your sample, it's either the 1 or 5 of the scale being used). it becomes PAINFULLY OBVIOUS to anyone whether or not it's in the key of your sample. i'd done this with no experience in ear-training or scales, and i recreated the melody from a sample i was using in minutes.

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