How does one create groove?

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Flippity
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How does one create groove?

Post by Flippity » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:56 am

I've been attempting to create at least one complete dubstep tune for about 3 years now. The only thing I can do is make noises and a beat. Can someone explain to me how I can achieve a groovy rhythm. Or could someone point me to a thread where they talk about this subject?

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3za
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by 3za » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:27 am

Flippity wrote:I've been attempting to create at least one complete dubstep tune for about 3 years now.
Don't give a shit, just keep finishing tunes, and you will keep getting better :D
Flippity wrote: Can someone explain to me how I can achieve a groovy rhythm.
Groovy is all subjective, posting a example will help...

Learn about swing, shuffle, syncopation, and all that shizzle. Also listen to lots of music (jazz, funk, blues) and start to break it down, and try to copy the rhythm/groove, will help you devolpe your listening skills, and will help you getting out whats in your head.

Some midi pads could also help you, with getting things into your daw, and will also give you a more human feel to your drums from the get go. What daw are you using? someone might be able to tell you about the groove tools it has ect.
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Flippity
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by Flippity » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:06 am


There's a song that has a groove I'm looking for. I like your thought of just listening to blues and jazz and recreating their rhythm, i can see that working.
And the program I'm using is Cubase. For my basses I use massive and itchy synths.

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jrisreal
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by jrisreal » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:44 am

Listen to some funky stuff like oldschool hiphop or jazz. Try to make the same vibes.
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by hutyluty » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:35 am

congas and tom drums everywhere, less emphasis on the snare
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Kaslo
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by Kaslo » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:58 am

A lot of people think it's just a matter of shuffling on the 16ths or 8ths but really it's about modulation in general. I find if you only swing the beat while keeping the volume consistent it sounds just as robotic and lifeless (assuming that's not what you're going for) as it would otherwise. Drawing in velocity automation for each hit on each drum, with a steady swing time, and using filters or other things to modulate the intensity of your hits all help.

Do this with as many "rider" sounds as you can, and also layering two or three different snares in different ways for each hit will help make it seem less static as well. Try syncopated hi-hats, emphasizing different beats with accents and crazy volume automation.

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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by Genevieve » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:09 pm

Use the bass/sub as a percussive element.
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by blinx » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:34 pm

carefully or youll blow up!
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by jrisreal » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:40 pm

Just gotta do everything with swagger.
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blinx
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by blinx » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:42 pm

in jazz they generally get groove by swinging the 1/8th ride pattern.
in dubstep you do WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!!!!!! but swing on 1/8ths and humanizing your velocity for drum hits will help alot.
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dubbyconqueror
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by dubbyconqueror » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 pm

Do not keep the velocity of hits consistent under any circumstance, this makes it sound really flat and boring. Don't do it randomly, but changing dynamics can help you emphasize certain beats as well as giving it a more human sound. Also, don't feel too constrained to beats, at least on snares and kicks, thoughtfully making hits a bit off beat can really go a long way in giving your drums more life. Your hats/rides or whatever should be more on beat or it will get too muddy, but its great to have other percussions and rides as well to emphasize swing. Lastly, when you get into adding swing and shuffle, don't do it all the way unless you want a really extreme and robotic shuffle. Like, rather than having a dotted 8th followed by a sixteenth, try something in between, like an 8th + 32nd and a dotted sixteenth (double values for half time). Oh, and also don't be too constrained by where drums should hit, you come up with more interesting beats if you add variations and sometimes stray a bit from kick on 1, snare on 2 (or in half time kick on 1 snare on 3)... Basically listen to some 2 step and Flying Lotus/Dorian Concept type stuff to get an idea, as well as jazz like others have said.

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legend4ry
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by legend4ry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:27 pm

Groove comes from all the elements of the drums working together..


You can have a simple drum loop which is like this..

Kick : | X - - - | - - - - |

Snare : | - - - - | X - - - |

Hat : | X - x - | X - x - |

And it will still be groovey if the sounds are right.
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drake89
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by drake89 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:28 am

how duz I wobbled bass :6: ?

no, but really all you need is a rhythm and a melody, and make them mesh together. You want to balance things being boring, like a melody that only moves stepwise, with things being crazy, like a melody that's jumping octaves all over the place. Same thing with your riddim, you could for instance have the 1/3 kick/snare but with some crazy syncopated or even polyrhythmic percussion on top of it. skys the limit mayne

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mikeyp
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by mikeyp » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:43 am

drums da da drums all day

mtl6
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by mtl6 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:16 am

think of a rhyme pattern in your head or beatbox it and use your "noises and a beat" to vocalize the rhyme pattern. A B A C, A B A D.... etc.

add human elements to your mix aka samples!!

you can download a sample pack of breaks and layer your own drum hits over the break so they fit exactly with that groove. then add and subtract as you wish.

there are so many ways to approach it. the end goal is that your bass and leads and drums should be working together. they should flow together as one cohesive unit. you can't really approach groove one instrument at a time. for example, if you like the groove of a particular drum break sample, structure your bass so it seems to dance around the kicks and snares. play everything in with your keyboard or midi controller. btw, snares are great for vocalizing a rhyme pattern. don't be afraid to delete what you record until its so catchy you can hear the rhyme pattern in your head the next day.

then once you have a bar or two you just gotta switch it up. add some variation to the melody but keep the groove, or vice versa. just treat your song like one flowing unit and you might find your production a little more groovy
chill groovy shit
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Bipolar
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by Bipolar » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:21 am

make your drums while standing up lol

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subfect
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by subfect » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:26 am

Flippity wrote:I've been attempting to create at least one complete dubstep tune for about 3 years now. The only thing I can do is make noises and a beat. Can someone explain to me how I can achieve a groovy rhythm. Or could someone point me to a thread where they talk about this subject?
No offense but 3 years and still haven't finished a tune? You've just wasted 3 years. Finishing a tune, no matter whether you like it or not, is how you learn all the ins and outs of every single aspect of production.
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by glottis5 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:38 am

legend4ry wrote:Groove comes from all the elements of the drums working together..


You can have a simple drum loop which is like this..

Kick : | X - - - | - - - - |

Snare : | - - - - | X - - - |

Hat : | X - x - | X - x - |

And it will still be groovey if the sounds are right.
this, groove is about creating a cohesive rhythm with different elements and contrast/push-pull/call-response between the different rhythmic elements

basically create a groove that's cohesive, complex and different enough to be interesting but not so complex and different that it becomes idm

hifi
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by hifi » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:43 am

legend4ry wrote:Groove comes from all the elements of the drums working together..


You can have a simple drum loop which is like this..

Kick : | X - - - | - - - - |

Snare : | - - - - | X - - - |

Hat : | X - - X | X - - X |

And it will still be groovey if the sounds are right.
fixed

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jrisreal
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Re: How does one create groove?

Post by jrisreal » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:46 am

Hypefiend wrote:
legend4ry wrote:Groove comes from all the elements of the drums working together..


You can have a simple drum loop which is like this..

Kick : | X - - - | - - - - |

Snare : | - - - - | X - - - |

Hat : | X - X | X - X |

And it will still be groovey if the sounds are right.
fixed
Nah. Now it's fixed. All about the triplets dude. Play the hats in triplets and take out the middle one. Results in a perfect swing.
...in my opinion
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