That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying double?

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wub
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That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying double?

Post by wub » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:08 pm

Ok, so am looking to upgrade my monitors. My MS40s have done me well considering they cost me £10 off eBay, but it's time to switch up. I'm thinking Adams to make the switch, and am looking at the A3Xs and A5Xs (fuck the 7s, not made of money).

Stats for these are;

A3Xs - Frequency response 60 Hz - 50 kHz // Long term output ≥98 dB
A5Xs - Frequency response 50 Hz - 50 kHz // Long term output ≥102 dB


dB output can be disregarded as TBH having them up that loud in a Spanish apartment block I'd be defenestrated very quickly. But the jump in frequency range is bothering me a bit...now, the MS40s have fuck all bass response and I usually need to use either my headphones or get creative with my subs :lol:

So was wondering if anyone with decent monitors (or experience thereof) can fill me on just whether the extra 10Hz bottom end range justifies what is essentially a doubling in the price?

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3za
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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by 3za » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:43 pm

Thats not the only difference between them, they will have a different crossover point etc...

I have never used either, but I wouldn't like to use speakers with less than a 5" woofer, especially if i didn't have a decent sub to pair with them.

But as always if you can go try them, then do.
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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by wub » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:52 pm

3za wrote:I have never used either, but I wouldn't like to use speakers with less than a 5" woofer, especially if i didn't have a decent sub to pair with them.
Yeah, the sub is probably off the cards for the reasons I gave above :lol:
3za wrote:But as always if you can go try them, then do.
Yet to find anywhere in Spain that sells this sort of stuff just yet.

3za wrote:Thats not the only difference between them, they will have a different crossover point etc...
Can you expand on this? I have a rough idea of crossover points but never quite got how they'd apply to what I was doing in my home setup?

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Sharmaji » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:01 pm

a 5" speaker isn't going have to work nearly as hard as a 3" speaker to produce low end; thus, provided it's well-amped (and adams are), you'll get a much cleaner translation of transient info. plus the ribbon tweeters in adams are so much easier to work on than ns10s or those godawful krk's.

having a set of 3" (or smaller) speakers around is a great way to test how mixes sound through normal playback scenarios, but it's impossible to make fully-informed mix decisions on them-- where your kick sits, how the low-end harmonics of X interact with Y, etc. it's the opposite problem of mixing on gigantic studio mains-- there, everything sounds huge and exciting even if you can't really discern anything. in 3" speakers, everything sounds small and tinny, even though it's not.

you're still not gonna get much going on below 50-60hz in those speakers, regardless-- but that's why god made headphones. and early soundchecks ;)
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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Nicco » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:14 pm

You should maybe check out the Emotive Pro Monitors... I never heard them myself, but according to some gearslutz members they're pretty close to the Adams

http://emotivapro.com/

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Eskimo » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:16 pm

50khz? O.o

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by narcissus » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:38 pm

well, the ratio from 10 to 60 is 1/6, right?
which means you will get an extra, minor third, if my calculations are right. (stemming from the fact that 6:5 was the traditional ratio used for the minor third)
so, if, one speaker can produce a Bb accurately, the other one can go down to G... you decide

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by RandoRando » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:52 pm

sorry to thread jack but ive never understood what frequency response really meant, i mean, if i play a sine wave below 50 hz, im still going to hear it. So what are they really talking about?

i could even play a 10hz note and hear it.
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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Kilo Graham » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:42 pm

RandoRando wrote:sorry to thread jack but ive never understood what frequency response really meant, i mean, if i play a sine wave below 50 hz, im still going to hear it. So what are they really talking about?

i could even play a 10hz note and hear it.
the volume is dropped rapidly through crossover filters that are sloped. also you hear overtones of the 20 hz note on regular speakers (maybe).

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by dublerium » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:31 am

wub wrote:
Yet to find anywhere in Spain that sells this sort of stuff just yet.
I remember when I was looking for monitors I found a spanish website that was significantly cheaper. Definitely can't remember the name though! Good luck on your searches. I personally would go for something bigger than 5", but that's just my needs and different strokes for different folks. Can't go wrong with the Adams though, I got to try out the a7x on a tune and really liked them. Prefer my yamahas though, but that's probably cause their mine and they work for me! Good luck with your searches.

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by travis_baker » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:44 am

im not experienced but i know that even whith my 8 inch monitors i have use headphones whith subs, as the room i have them in is far too small. and if the monitor can produce 50hz dosnt mean it has equal presence in that area, tapers off. get the 5's my opinion. or use bothe ur old monitors and the 3 inch simutaniously have the 3 inch monitors at ur ears and the others in a less effective position?

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Nicco » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:18 am

RandoRando wrote:
i could even play a 10hz note and hear it.
No you can't... the lowest frequence you can hear ist about 20hz. When you play a 10hz note the only thing you could hear are air noises caused by the bassreflex port of your speakers.

Usually the numbers given in the frequence response are the f3 points. That's the point where the reference output has droped by 3db... after that the output rolls off rapidly... take a look at a frequence plot and you should get the idea.

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by RandoRando » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:54 am

Nicco wrote:
RandoRando wrote:
i could even play a 10hz note and hear it.
No you can't... the lowest frequence you can hear ist about 20hz. When you play a 10hz note the only thing you could hear are air noises caused by the bassreflex port of your speakers.

Usually the numbers given in the frequence response are the f3 points. That's the point where the reference output has droped by 3db... after that the output rolls off rapidly... take a look at a frequence plot and you should get the idea.
yes i know i considered editing my post but i didnt.....

"i could even play a 10hz note and see the woofer moving"

and ok makes sense.
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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by wub » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:28 pm

dublerium wrote:
wub wrote:
Yet to find anywhere in Spain that sells this sort of stuff just yet.
I remember when I was looking for monitors I found a spanish website that was significantly cheaper. Definitely can't remember the name though! Good luck on your searches. I personally would go for something bigger than 5", but that's just my needs and different strokes for different folks. Can't go wrong with the Adams though, I got to try out the a7x on a tune and really liked them. Prefer my yamahas though, but that's probably cause their mine and they work for me! Good luck with your searches.
Found this place

http://www.cutoff.es/index.php


Seems to be what I need :D

The A7X's don't look that unreasonable price wise - http://www.cutoff.es/product_info.php?c ... ts_id=2747

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by AxeD » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:55 am

Nah, an extra 10hz of low end response isn't worth double.
I don't have home monitoring, but what are you guys spending on room treatment?

Only heard Genelec and Bluesky so can't comment on the Adams. Should be high quality monitors though.
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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Kilo Graham » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:25 am

AxeD wrote:Nah, an extra 10hz of low end response isn't worth double.
I don't have home monitoring, but what are you guys spending on room treatment?

Only heard Genelec and Bluesky so can't comment on the Adams. Should be high quality monitors though.
the frequency response listed isn't regulated by any real standards and you can't trust them, but the 5 will be better than the 3 in terms of low frequency extension almost assuredly

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Re: That extra 10Hz of bass on monitors...worth paying doubl

Post by Immerse » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:11 am

with the smaller monitors.. mixing your sub is a real guessing game until you get used to them and do bunches of mixdowns on them. after you get to hear tunes you mixdown on your monitors (regardless of what they are), on a system, you can start acclimating to whatever cutoff slope you may have. if you have a decent pair of headphones its not a big deal, but with any monitor (especially smaller monitors), you kind of have to guess on how the low end will translate to other systems until you can hear it on said systems and make note of the mix. When i used my 3.5 inch m audio monitors i did this with the system in my car, and still do with my event tr-8's. the tr-8's begin sloping off at around 45hz (slowly) and the 50-65hz range is much more present on these monitors. its really all about getting to know your speakers, itll just be more pleasurable to produce with bigger speakers :D
that said i say go for the 5's unless you have budget for 7's. bass makes producing fun.
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