$350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

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wub
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by wub » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:12 am

Artie Fufkin wrote:just sounded like a kick sample pack to me... :H:
Paddy McMurphy wrote:$350 for some kick drums! looooooooool you'd need a screw loose to spend that sort of money, tons and tons of samples online
This argument, to me, is the same as someone saying that learning to cook is pointless when you just buy ready meals. Yes, there are drum samples available online, but the sounds from this synth would be mine and no one else's. that is part of the appeal to me, not to mention I'd never have to browse through 1000s of drum samples again in my life :lol:
Paddy McMurphy wrote:plus you can make your own with ANY synth!
True. But some synths will be limited and every synth has their own sound. I'm not sure a drum made in Massive (for example) would give me as much flexibility as one made with this.

Paddy McMurphy
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by Paddy McMurphy » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:28 am

wub wrote:True. But some synths will be limited and every synth has their own sound.
Exactly - if you own 2 or 3 synths, that's a lot of possibility for drum synthesis. Layer them with each other or layer with a sample, voilà a new drum hit.

wub
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by wub » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:50 am

Paddy McMurphy wrote:
wub wrote:True. But some synths will be limited and every synth has their own sound.
Exactly - if you own 2 or 3 synths, that's a lot of possibility for drum synthesis. Layer them with each other or layer with a sample, voilà a new drum hit.

Or just use one synth with no layering.

Sugar Ape
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by Sugar Ape » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:07 am

You might have 1,000 drum samples, but how long does it take to cycle through them? Plus you still might not find what you want

It's like comparing static EQ presets with being able to twist dials yourself ... Take something as simple as a TR909 (which people nowadays pay over $3,000 for), and with just 4 dials (say 20 positions each) you've got 160,000 different kick drums

It's not so essential for genres like Dubstep (where you'd probably want to process and layer your kickdrums a lot anyway), but in House or Techno, the kickdrum might be 50% of the tune ... So the more control the better

On why it can be better than regular synths: drum synths can have much faster envelopes ... The transient on the typical analog bass drum is the same oscillator than does the boom, on a very tight, fast pitch-envelope ... Most softsynths are nowhere near fast enough to do this - they tend to block-process, so the envelope usually moves in steps ... Hardware VAs are usually about 10-20x faster (because they sample-process), but analog can be ultrasonic

Another thing with 4x4 music is a sample is exactly the same wave every time - an analog bass drum is constantly changing (no two 909 bass drums look exactly the same) ... So in genres like Dub Techno, you get a much more fluid, organic sound - like a real bass drum

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rockonin
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by rockonin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:54 pm

$350=£220. Definitely a luxury buy.
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by fragments » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:32 am

A lot of ignorance going on up in this. Good to see the next gen of dsf is exactly what I'd expect. Beyond the studio a drum module like this has tons of live applications.
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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by Artie_Fufkin » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:52 am

^good to see? Hey man I don't have that kind of money to throw on hardware just for one instrument.
I guess it might be kinda cool for morphing a kick drum during a repetitive/minimal(?) set. I guess you couldn't really imitate that with samples because crossfading wouldn't bridge that gap in sound and would probably clash in the low end. But "tons" of applications? Please edify me.

I'm just saying I've listened to sample packs where the kick folder covered pretty much those sounds in that video. I'm sure you can get more out of it than what a one minute video shows.

wub, that 'ready made meals' analogy is apples and oranges. You can tweak samples in an infinite amount of ways just like you can synthesize stuff. And it would be totally personal, too. If you have time to sit and tweak a drum module, you have equal amount of time to listen to samples, categorize them in some way and tweak them to your liking. Just renaming samples to describe the sounds and organizing a small folder of diverse kick samples you are familiar with can be a stepping stone for going into whatever direction want.
Any of you guys use Hammerhead Rhythm Station before? The video reminds me of the kick samples from Hammerhead. :)

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by GregoryTJ » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:59 am

Sugar Ape wrote:You might have 1,000 drum samples, but how long does it take to cycle through them? Plus you still might not find what you want

It's like comparing static EQ presets with being able to twist dials yourself ... Take something as simple as a TR909 (which people nowadays pay over $3,000 for), and with just 4 dials (say 20 positions each) you've got 160,000 different kick drums

It's not so essential for genres like Dubstep (where you'd probably want to process and layer your kickdrums a lot anyway), but in House or Techno, the kickdrum might be 50% of the tune ... So the more control the better

On why it can be better than regular synths: drum synths can have much faster envelopes ... The transient on the typical analog bass drum is the same oscillator than does the boom, on a very tight, fast pitch-envelope ... Most softsynths are nowhere near fast enough to do this - they tend to block-process, so the envelope usually moves in steps ... Hardware VAs are usually about 10-20x faster (because they sample-process), but analog can be ultrasonic

Another thing with 4x4 music is a sample is exactly the same wave every time - an analog bass drum is constantly changing (no two 909 bass drums look exactly the same) ... So in genres like Dub Techno, you get a much more fluid, organic sound - like a real bass drum
While I will agree that kick synthesizing hardware looks cool as shit, any decent softsynth will have a good enough resolution of it's envelopes to produce decent transients (heck, Harmor's envelopes can have a resolution of one point every .5 milliseconds.)

Also in most decent softsynths there will be some sort of randomization (which in some cases is configurable) so if you are synthesizing your kick it will be different every time.

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by fragments » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:48 pm

Artie Fufkin wrote:^good to see? Hey man I don't have that kind of money to throw on hardware just for one instrument.
I guess it might be kinda cool for morphing a kick drum during a repetitive/minimal(?) set. I guess you couldn't really imitate that with samples because crossfading wouldn't bridge that gap in sound and would probably clash in the low end. But "tons" of applications? Please edify me.

I'm just saying I've listened to sample packs where the kick folder covered pretty much those sounds in that video. I'm sure you can get more out of it than what a one minute video shows.

wub, that 'ready made meals' analogy is apples and oranges. You can tweak samples in an infinite amount of ways just like you can synthesize stuff. And it would be totally personal, too. If you have time to sit and tweak a drum module, you have equal amount of time to listen to samples, categorize them in some way and tweak them to your liking. Just renaming samples to describe the sounds and organizing a small folder of diverse kick samples you are familiar with can be a stepping stone for going into whatever direction want.
Any of you guys use Hammerhead Rhythm Station before? The video reminds me of the kick samples from Hammerhead. :)
I wasnt singling anyone out. I know most people wont spend that kind of money on a drum module.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by wub » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:51 pm

Second hand I probably would...it's definitely on the wish list for me :lol:

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by fragments » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:43 pm

wub wrote:Second hand I probably would...it's definitely on the wish list for me :lol:
Its a bad ass module. If I was doing something live, I'd love to have a Jomox drum machine for sure.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by slothrop » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:11 pm

fragments wrote:A lot of ignorance going on up in this. Good to see the next gen of dsf is exactly what I'd expect. Beyond the studio a drum module like this has tons of live applications.

TBF it's also about the difference between people who mostly use software, for whom 200 quid would buy you two top-of-the-range all purpose multiwhatehaveyou synths pretty much of your choice, versus people who mostly use analogue hardware, for whom 200 quid would buy you two or three modules for your Doepfer modular system or about a third of a sherman filterbank or half an analogue delay or something...

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by fragments » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:21 pm

slothrop wrote:
fragments wrote:A lot of ignorance going on up in this. Good to see the next gen of dsf is exactly what I'd expect. Beyond the studio a drum module like this has tons of live applications.

TBF it's also about the difference between people who mostly use software, for whom 200 quid would buy you two top-of-the-range all purpose multiwhatehaveyou synths pretty much of your choice, versus people who mostly use analogue hardware, for whom 200 quid would buy you two or three modules for your Doepfer modular system or about a third of a sherman filterbank or half an analogue delay or something...
Well. That was partially my point about ignorance. But you said it clearly and sans snark :)
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

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Re: $350 for some hardware that just does kick drums?

Post by crabb_steppa » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:30 am

if u'v ever ran analogue gear straight into a big rig Live PA style you'd know what this thing is all about :ranks:
~1up

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