Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

hardware, software, tips and tricks
Forum rules
By using this "Production" sub-forum, you acknowledge that you have read, understood and agreed with our terms of use for this site. Click HERE to read them. If you do not agree to our terms of use, you must exit this site immediately. We do not accept any responsibility for the content, submissions, information or links contained herein. Users posting content here, do so completely at their own risk.

Quick Link to Feedback Forum
xtcvsmistycold
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:24 am

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by xtcvsmistycold » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:52 pm

how long until the next world war

User avatar
nowaysj
Posts: 23281
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 am
Location: Mountain Fortress

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:59 pm

sco wrote:will brazil beat croatia
Economically, yes.
sco wrote:what's your favourite mixbuss compressor
Again, I don't do much of anything to anything anymore. Just fucking up sounds, and then letting them stay that way. Dropping a limiter on it afterwards.

But, imo, this is the best mixbuss compressor I've used:

Image

Waves G SSL compressor. For busses and for master.

I just don't care enough, anymore, to use this type of technology.

This is also kind of advanced. Are you lurkers out there harboring really advanced questions? But don't see that kind of discussion happening? It could happen, if you want it, I've just got to know if that is what you're looking for.
Join Me
DiegoSapiens wrote:oh fucking hell now i see how on point was nowaysj
Soundcloud

xtcvsmistycold
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:24 am

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by xtcvsmistycold » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:11 pm

what are your views on the k-system r.e. levels when mixing/mastering

would fabregas have been a success if he returned to arsenal

User avatar
RADD
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:32 pm
Location: Leiden

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by RADD » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:25 pm

Q: get a soundcard with more In/Outs or get a cheap mixer with loads of In/Outs?

I want to route my audio to and from a cassette deck and maybe add a synth somewhere(sold my Virus B, looking towards microbrute).


Basically I already made up my mind about getting a mixer, how do you guys utilize these?

User avatar
nowaysj
Posts: 23281
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 am
Location: Mountain Fortress

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:29 pm

Look man, sports are fun to play, and can be fun to watch, but your time is better spent doing something rather than watching sports (as a lifestyle). Watching sports is one way of supporting the military/prisoncomplex, and should not be done. Disengage from manufactured drama and face reality, because reality is about to get really real.

I don't need or use the k-system. If you need it to set levels properly, use it. Thanks to a now ascended master, MACC, I know how to set my levels properly. Both in my monitors in hardware, in my audio i/o, and in my daw software.


I have a set working volume in hardware and in my audio i/o. This ensures a consistent mix environment. If my desk is vibrating, I know the amount of resonance I have, where I have it in the spectrum. A consistent mix environment is a pretty useful habit to adopt.

In software, in my daw, if I'm building tracks in there...

Sidenote:
which I'm not, I'm finishing in there, now, starting and doing most everything in hardware, hardware is not important, 'guests', I just have more fun using it, and get the type of results I like. Software is ALL GOOD, don't think you're missing out, or the software is holding you back. Just about everything in software is easier. So if you are having problems, with most aspects of production, hardware is just going to make it difficult.
sidenote/

...whatever element I start with, usually my kick, I'll set it to peak at around -14db or -12db. As you can see, this gets me pretty close to k-14. That'll be like the loudest element of my track and I'll build from that. Maybe I'll pull the kick down, and snare up if that is what needs be, but that sets a ceiling, and ensures, for me, that my audio i/o and monitors are at the right level. From there I can evaluate other sounds properly. I can tell if they have too much energy at various points in the spectrum, how much weight they'll carry.

When I 'master' a song now, I'm never surprised. I know how it is going to sound on playback. I trust my ears, and I know my meters well enough to know where things are going to be. But this is from doing it quite a lot. From experience. But I couldn't have learned that if I didn't start with a consistent mix environment. Which, again, for the fifth time, is fundamental, imo.
Join Me
DiegoSapiens wrote:oh fucking hell now i see how on point was nowaysj
Soundcloud

User avatar
nowaysj
Posts: 23281
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 am
Location: Mountain Fortress

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:31 pm

RADD wrote:Q: get a soundcard with more In/Outs or get a cheap mixer with loads of In/Outs?

I want to route my audio to and from a cassette deck and maybe add a synth somewhere(sold my Virus B, looking towards microbrute).


Basically I already made up my mind about getting a mixer, how do you guys utilize these?
Need more info. What kind of music are you making, what is your process for making that music, how much experience do you have, what kind of hard and software do you use?
Join Me
DiegoSapiens wrote:oh fucking hell now i see how on point was nowaysj
Soundcloud

User avatar
RADD
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 3:32 pm
Location: Leiden

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by RADD » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:39 pm

My background could be usefull yes:

Been producing for 4-5 years in Ableton, starting out on the dungeon dubstep and now shifting towards the "dubby, reggae, vibes" stuff. I know mixing desks are prominently used in for this type of music, but I'm not looking for anything big or serious.

Just using Ableton, a 49key midicontroller and an lpd8 at the moment.

fragments
Posts: 3552
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:24 pm
Location: NEOhio
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:57 pm

If you are looking to mostly work in the box, but with a bit of outboard gear MicroBrute (which I highly recommend!) and the cassette deck I would say interface w/ like 8 line level I/O and a couple preamps (room to expand there). If you are looking to work mostly out of the box, get a mixer.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

User avatar
nowaysj
Posts: 23281
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 am
Location: Mountain Fortress

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:02 pm

Hmm, been producing for a while. But it seems you don't have a lot of hardware synths/samplers or effects like delays or reverbs or processors like eq's or comps. Shit can get expensive right quick in hardware.

Do you know how mixing boards are used in dubbing? Ableton is made to dub dude. You can setup ableton's mixer to work just like a hardware mixer.

Again, almost everything is easier in software.

A piece of hardware that will get you that tactile control, though, that mind mapped interface to control the sends out into your delay channel, your mutes and solos... is the Behringer BCF

Image

Do a little bit of research on this bad boy. It is Behringer, which I've sworn I won't ever use, but I would for this. And I will at some point, add this to my system of production.

Also check this article from S0S from like 2007, pretty interesting. Not exactly what you are looking for but dubbing is dubbing, and they've got some helpful software tips. Also, note, some of the software problems have been eliminated in Ableton's environment.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul07/a ... mixing.htm

Dude, Ableton is made to dub. Can't say it enough. Going hardware is going to be fun (as well as frustrating as hell). It is going to take up a tun of space, take a tun of money, just the cabling, I'm sure you're not ready for a couple of hundred Euro for wiring, and it is going to take you a tun of time to get up and running on it, AND THEN you're probably going to get inferior sound quality. And please, this is coming from a hardware dude, I've still got my virus b ;) but I don't do everything in hardware, for the above mentioned reasons. If I had the space and money, I would be in it to win it. But I don't. I do the best I can with what I've got.

I use an EMU 1616m audio interface with three stereo audio inputs. This gives me a lot of i/o for my hardware, but really I'm usually only using two of the stereo inputs. I do my stuff in hardware, and then bring it into software to do all the mixing and mastering. I've got a hardware stereo channel that uses a preamp, a compressor and and EQ, that I can run stuff through. But honestly, I MOSTLY use just the preamp. I do a lot of resampling in the same hardware sampler, so don't have a need to, like, go out and come back into something. I've got a second hardware sampler, that I feel like it might be making an appearance on my desk, in which case, I will probably use that full chain, bouncing between samplers, but for now, it is mostly just the pre on the way into the computer.

I have done, and will do some audio recording, that chain does get used on the way in when recording, I ain't no pussy, I'll track with compression and eq.

Anyway, I don't have a mixer. I wish I did, I'd definitely do more sessions in hardware, and get more gear out of the closet, but it is not essential. I think it would be wise to really tap the software before you bail out into hardware. Hardware is a trap dude. People can get lost out there. Software tends to be easier and more flexible. I feel like people have issues with their knowledge, which they try to ameliorate with hardware, and that only makes it worse.

What do you think hardware is going to do for you? What will it change?
Join Me
DiegoSapiens wrote:oh fucking hell now i see how on point was nowaysj
Soundcloud

xtcvsmistycold
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:24 am

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by xtcvsmistycold » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:08 pm

Please could you recommend a synthesiser with keyboard that I can use as a midi keyboard that can be found cheaply

please could you explain how the writers of "edge of tomorrow" can expect us to not question how tom cruise survives at the end after the omega is destroyed

User avatar
nowaysj
Posts: 23281
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 am
Location: Mountain Fortress

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:41 pm

sco wrote:Please could you recommend a synthesiser with keyboard that I can use as a midi keyboard that can be found cheaply
Dude I really like the microkorg for this. It can sit on your desk, you can jam on its keys, it has foundation shaking bass, its got fucked up hashy high end. It is good on a lot of levels.

Image

There is a newer version of this. Have not used it, can't say if they fucked it up or not.

Image

The microkorg share an engine with this bad boy:

Image

And should not be passed up, if a good price is found. There are rack versions, which seem to be more common.

A competitor that is updated, I've played it in the store sounded really good, I don't know how it is to program or play or work with but it is out there, it is more, but:

Image

Anybody else have keyboarded synths that also function as controllers?
sco wrote:please could you explain how the writers of "edge of tomorrow" can expect us to not question how tom cruise survives at the end after the omega is destroyed
You know I don't watch movies. Occasionally, if I'm totally depleted and crashed out in bed. Haven't seen this. I think Tom Cruise is the most interesting living actor. 'Edge of tomorrow' and 'omega' are both occult terms and concepts. A study of these concepts would be fruitful, though dangerous.
Join Me
DiegoSapiens wrote:oh fucking hell now i see how on point was nowaysj
Soundcloud

fragments
Posts: 3552
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:24 pm
Location: NEOhio
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:25 pm

@sco: Nord Lead x2 Keys might also be a good option. I've seen them as cheap as 499USD. The Nord Lead x2 is a fantastic virtual analog synth.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

User avatar
bouncingfish
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 5:11 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by bouncingfish » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:45 pm

Can you please explain gain staging, or rather why/if it's important in a digital (32 bit float) environment?
I need to stop changing my sig

Hey, finally got soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/h-e-l-l-o
some guy from facebook wrote: -instead being would have said stop acting judgemental of others then yet on you mind is not yet acting judgemental

User avatar
nowaysj
Posts: 23281
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:11 am
Location: Mountain Fortress

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:58 pm

-q- I can, but my office hours are now closed.

Quick answer, yes, of course it is important. But don't trip about it, stop making it an issue. Just work 12-14db below 0dbfs or 0 on your meters and almost all will be good. The more I talk about it, the more difficult it appears. It really is that simple, work 12-14db below, and turn up your actual physical monitors until they are a good monitoring volume. You'll find your synths/samples and processing mostly gain stage themselves from that point forward. Working up around 0db is just dumb, and way more difficult. If you can't even get your levels set right in the beginning, what chance do you have of making a good song? That one little thing?

But if anyone else would like to say the same thing, in 30 different ways, over and over again, go for it!

:Q:

:lol:
Join Me
DiegoSapiens wrote:oh fucking hell now i see how on point was nowaysj
Soundcloud

User avatar
NinjaEdit
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:16 am
Location: Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by NinjaEdit » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:14 am

When you push the volume above 0 and bring down the master, the algorithm used to bring the volumes down fucks up the sound.

Your speakers are most energy efficient at 0db, which is at or near the top of the dial.

User avatar
bouncingfish
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 5:11 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by bouncingfish » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:47 am

What about this though?
This basically speaks against the last post in every way.


I need to stop changing my sig

Hey, finally got soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/h-e-l-l-o
some guy from facebook wrote: -instead being would have said stop acting judgemental of others then yet on you mind is not yet acting judgemental

fragments
Posts: 3552
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:24 pm
Location: NEOhio
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:52 am

^ w/o even watching that I can tell you, you do need to pay attention to gain staging...it isn't all about the master...your signal can clip inside a VST synt or FX and the clipping won't register on the channel strip or on the master. And that clipping will = distortion. And besides you can always turn shit up later, so what is the point of risking clipping channels, buses or the master? There is virtually no noise floor when you are working all in the box, so you almost (key word ALMOST) don't need to worry about working too quiet.

Basically just listen to Nowaysj...despite 32 bit floating point...there is no real reason to work that loud...doesn't guarantee the track will sound louder or better when any kind of post mix processing is applied.

Also, I'm not sure about the bit about monitor's sounding best at near -0db...could be wrong...but pretty much all audio equipment I have worked with will start to distort the closer you get to max volume. Could totally be wrong.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

User avatar
NinjaEdit
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:16 am
Location: Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by NinjaEdit » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:03 am

I think in that case, max volume might be amplified into positive db. It's a matter of finding the sweet spot.

fragments
Posts: 3552
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:24 pm
Location: NEOhio
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:11 am

jonahmann wrote:I think in that case, max volume might be amplified into positive db. It's a matter of finding the sweet spot.
Every amp and speaker certainly has a sweet spot. Like I said...I could totally be wrong...I am thinking in terms of True Harmonic Distortion ratings...(THD) if you care to look that up : )
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.

User avatar
NinjaEdit
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:16 am
Location: Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by NinjaEdit » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:25 am

From the Total Harmonic Distortion Wikipedia page:

"For all signal processing equipment, except microphone preamplifiers, the preferred gain setting is unity. For microphone preamplifiers, standard practice is to use maximum gain."

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 46 guests