Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:11 pm

Newb question:

Is there any important difference between sampling a C note of a synth into a sampler and writing a melody AND sampling all the notes in an octave and writing a melody. In the digital world (for me it would be Maschine) there would be some artifacts from changing the pitch if going the first route?

Just thinking about how to approach a new project which will sample heavily from hardware, but be arranged ITB. Trying to decide if it is worth multi sampling my patches or not.
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:40 pm

Can't you arrange whole phrases?
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:10 pm

nowaysj wrote:Can't you arrange whole phrases?
Yea, I could sequence and record whole phrases. I was thinking of doing a couple of serious sound design sessions and developing a texture for the album first, then writing the music and adding the words as a second phase. I can't save patches on most of my hardware synths and recreating patchbay routing is a nightmare.

So I was wondering if it was worth the time to multi sample the patches or not.
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by cyclopian » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:21 pm

I would multi sample, especially if you are using an analog synth, better to get the filter opening up slightly differently on different notes etc. I would even go as far to multisample the same notes and run them on a round robin set up in machine for added organic-ness
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:26 pm

Do you want the sampled synth patches playable by keys later?

Am thinking you could record scales and then slice and arrange later? I do that sometimes, cut out the middle man sampler, just record the scale, and chop and arrange notes later (or as a layer on top of my playing - which is usually phrases) in audio. You get a kind of pallet of audio to work with, like I need a G# in that voice, there it is, cut, duplicate, make unique as sample.

If you want them to be playable with keys later, sampling is defo going to be what you're up to. You're going to have to decide how much you want to multisample. It can get crazy. Let's say you have velocity to osc 1 pitch in your synth, you better multisample each damn note at a range of velocities... I think this would affect your sound design, ie designing somewhat more static sounds to use as a base, that'll later get fx for movement.

I'd do some preproduction bro, and see what you're really talking about. Truthfully, I hate multisampling. Just so tedious. But set up a few patches, and see what you can get away with. Once an octave, once every three half steps, each note... Picking a key and scale first would help things, but could leave little flexibility later (or some flexibility with artifacts :) )
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:38 pm

Thanks guys. Yea, seems like the answer would be to sampler a lot before hand. I hadn't thought of even a quarter of the things you bring up here. I do like the round robin idea in Maschine. Or as you suggest create pretty flat patches that get FXs added later. Shit at that point I might as well create a Kontakt instrument...oh lord...don't even want to get into that! Or I know you can easily setup a kind of multisample scenario in Alchemy as well. And yea, I was hoping to be able to play the samples back on the keys later

Truly appreciate these thoughts...I think I need to go back to the drawing board and decide what is important and how I want to handle things. Seems like I would get lost in sample for a month before I even sat down to actually write a song...
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:55 pm

Well, try it out, and see how much it is, if it is something you want to do. And yea, I was thinking Kontakt Instrument.

You could also keep your routing somewhat static, and just take photos of your patches. I've done that as well :)
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by hubb » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:37 pm

yeah I would have the scale in mind but do little special renditions to the notes that had to do something specific.
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:39 pm

Yea, I have decided I'm going to spend about thirty days prepping multi samples for this project just for the experience. If I'm going to do scales, might as well just always do all the notes. Doesn't seem that much extra time in the grand scheme of things. Will probably look into building Kontakt instruments, but that might be above my pay grade.

Going to be creating drum kits as well.
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:05 pm

Well, maybe I misspoke. Wtf is a kontakt instrument? When I've done this, I just sample each note, and load it into each key of kontakt. Maybe set up some modulation stuff... I'm still on Kontakt like 3.5, filters still sound like shit, so I don't do much in there.

Is that a kontakt instrument, or is there more to it?
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:50 pm

nowaysj wrote:Well, maybe I misspoke. Wtf is a kontakt instrument? When I've done this, I just sample each note, and load it into each key of kontakt. Maybe set up some modulation stuff... I'm still on Kontakt like 3.5, filters still sound like shit, so I don't do much in there.

Is that a kontakt instrument, or is there more to it?
From the little research I've done, its the same thing. But you can save them as some kind of presets. All so you can map different sounds via key and velocity parameters. I googled "how to make a kontakt instrument" and it sounds like what you are describing.
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:42 pm

Yep, well, welcome to the tedium. Designing the patch, playing and recording note by note, chopping all that audio, naming and saving all that shit, then bringing it all into kontakt, working in those tiny little key ranges... saving out instruments, loosing files... have fun, motherfucker! It's not for me :)
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by fragments » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:19 pm

nowaysj wrote:Yep, well, welcome to the tedium. Designing the patch, playing and recording note by note, chopping all that audio, naming and saving all that shit, then bringing it all into kontakt, working in those tiny little key ranges... saving out instruments, loosing files... have fun, motherfucker! It's not for me :)
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by RKM » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:57 pm

kind of a broad one but, programming synths? just using ableton operator, enjoyed making a grime square waves one, kinda flopped at doing the bassline one, anyone got any ideas to try/tips
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by DrGatineau » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:02 am

DETUNE

(for the grime synth)
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by RKM » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:29 am

for the grime one been doing, 2 square waves with different frequencies and different velocity/oscilation

is there another way to detune that shit, like i know i can detune further in the sampler
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by DrGatineau » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:55 am

not quite sure what you mean by velocity/oscillation, but i don't really use operator.

i would go for that in Sylenth personally. just use the detune knob.

otherwise you can pitch one square up by like 5-20 "cents" (aka .05 - .2 of a note) and pitch the other square down. chorus has a pretty similar effect as well.

just wondering, are you trying to make like a classic Wiley type bassline (eg in igloo, eskimo, etc) or a kahn type grime synth from thief in the law for example or that newer grime synth used in this tune for example:

(not the main instrument but that little supporting synth you hear at like 1:06 for example...seems to be a really popular sound in lots of that new grime that i don't listen to)

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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by nowaysj » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:10 am

RKM wrote:kind of a broad one but, programming synths? just using ableton operator, enjoyed making a grime square waves one, kinda flopped at doing the bassline one, anyone got any ideas to try/tips
Bassline is tricky, and has evolved over the years. I'm not a bassline aficionado, though have liked it from a distance after the fact - well the instrumental vein. But that stuff WAS done in reason back in the day. Patches were a highly guarded secret.

I haven't done it for some some time, but I'd play with an envelope to pitch, try detuning 2 oscs, and then putting a third osc an octave or two above. Then adjust your filter envelope to taste. I wish I remembered who it was, but a few years ago, I heard some updated bassline sounds that were f'ing amazing, like seriously updated.

Hit this dude up, tell him nowaysj said that you're cool and to tell you how to make a legit bassline sound, but not in Reason, just the principle. Then ask him who has the most cutting edge bassline synth sound now.

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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by RKM » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:05 am

thanks guys, i don't have a specific sound in mind i wanna directly ape atm,

it is quite irritating how many synth tutorials for these genres on youtube just film themselves flicking through the presets in some synth they bought, i'm sure that's how some fucking sick shit has been made but it doesn't really teach me anything haha
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Re: Alright Newbies, Ask A Question

Post by hubb » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:16 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEcVXsLyiWg

the principle in this two part thing is a very good standard for a bass but yeah obviously slightly genre specific.
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