Do you think that using loops/presets/sample packs is 'lazy'

wub · Post by **wub** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:37 am

Had this discussion with a mate the other night.....

One side of the argument is that using loops/presets/sample packs and all that is lazy, and that you should be making your own of the above to set your stuff apart, giving things that unique feel.

The other side is that it's not about the source material, it's about what you do with it that counts - a shit hot producer can make a shit hot tune using presets, just as being an amazing sound designer doesn't mean you know how to throw a beat together.

rendr · Post by **rendr** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:43 am

If a loop is cut up, a present is tweaked & sample is processed then I think it's fine, as long as it's not recognizable. If it is obvious though it's a bit ...

zgomot · Post by **zgomot** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:43 am

I guess you answered your own question.

I think it's not what you use but how you use it. I use about 90% samples and loops, heck, even my bass lines are sampled, but I rarely leave a sample/loop as it is originally. I usually chop/edit/process the crap ouit of it, but sometimes I find a sample/loop that is just so dam hot and fits the track so good that I don't even bother changing it.

dj vision · Post by **dj vision** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:47 am

i think it all depends

are you using said sample/preset/loop because its what everybody else is using? or are you using it because its something that adds to the sound you are trying to achieve?

i think its alot harder trying to achieve the sounds you want with just pure synthesis and stuff, and im definitely not at the level that i can synthesize every single effect i use

i would say i use about 50/50

all my leads, basslines, air/swooshing fx, and occasionally some other FX are synthesized by me

i use samples for all my drums, often layered, but not always, but always processed a shit load with eq, reverb, compression, distortion and such, and then alot of my FX sounds are samples

i never use any loops though, those are lame, i sequence all my drums

and there are instances, where i use leads that i didn't synthesize, if it suits the atmosphere, sometimes its better to use a sample

wub · Post by **wub** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:47 am

Rendr wrote:If a loop is cut up, a present is tweaked & sample is processed then I think it's fine, as long as it's not recognizable. If it is obvious though it's a bit ...

This is based on someone being able to recognise it, surely? Fair play, if you've taken the Dirty Perc #2 off of the Dubstep Sample Pack™ and not changed it, it would be pretty straight off the bat to notice it.

But what if you'd taken a loop from some obscure sample pack that maybe people wouldn't necessarily recognise?

zgomot wrote:
I usually chop/edit/process the crap ouit of it, but sometimes I find a sample/loop that is just so dam hot and fits the track so good that I don't even bother changing it.

How many of your tunes, if you don't mind my asking, would you say that maybe have an unedited loop in them?

rendr · Post by **rendr** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:29 am

Wub wrote:
Rendr wrote:If a loop is cut up, a present is tweaked & sample is processed then I think it's fine, as long as it's not recognizable. If it is obvious though it's a bit ...

This is based on someone being able to recognise it, surely? Fair play, if you've taken the Dirty Perc #2 off of the Dubstep Sample Pack™ and not changed it, it would be pretty straight off the bat to notice it.

But what if you'd taken a loop from some obscure sample pack that maybe people wouldn't necessarily recognise?

Well I can only speak from experience and say that I'd never dream of putting in a ready made loop from some other source without at least editing it in some way first. For me it's more about the fact that I want music to be something I create, rather than just glue together with someone else's pieces.

mr ads · Post by **mr ads** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:48 am

Pretty much repeating what others have said but going to say it anyway

I agree it is pretty lame using loads of loops, particularly if your not doing a lot to them.

However it’s hard fighting the temptation, particularly when you haven’t been producing long and one loop can add so much to your tune. One of my favourite tracks I’ve made is based heavily round a loop, I’m trying not to use them but I can spend evenings messing around with hats and the like and get nowhere near the groove of a loop.

Although I don’t think you can create your own sound easily with loops.

zgomot · Post by **zgomot** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:52 am

Wub wrote:
zgomot wrote:
I usually chop/edit/process the crap ouit of it, but sometimes I find a sample/loop that is just so dam hot and fits the track so good that I don't even bother changing it.
How many of your tunes, if you don't mind my asking, would you say that maybe have an unedited loop in them?

About 40%.

rynke · Post by **rynke** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:11 pm

i'm a big enemy of presets and loops (from, for instance, Garage Band or FL). seriously if thats the way you want to make music, then go buy E-jay or something...
when i use samples i usually play around with them untill i like how they sound. i need to add my own touch...
i think learning how to create your own synths is one of the biggest parts in learning how to produce music... using presets is kinda like cheating

wub · Post by **wub** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:17 pm

Rynke wrote:using presets is kinda like cheating

But there have been tunes, for example, that have been released with the bassline being made using the Dirty Electro preset on Massive?

zgomot · Post by **zgomot** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:28 pm

Wub wrote:
Rynke wrote:using presets is kinda like cheating

But there have been tunes, for example, that have been released with the bassline being made using the Dirty Electro preset on Massive?

Or big-name tunes with breaks (as in drum loops) straight off the reason soundbank refill.

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:30 pm

Its all about Vibes, soul and feeling in your tunes - these dont come pre made.
you can spend days/weeks tweaking your own self made sounds but if your tune doesnt capture peoples imagination then they dont mean shit.

DZA · Post by **DZA** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:15 pm

roistermusic · Post by **roistermusic** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:16 pm

Loops are silly...WTF!!

Drum breaks are an essential tool of all producers!!...it is almost impossible to recreate a live drum break feeling with single hits...drum breaks are a must..dnb wouldnt exist without loops!!

i use breaks all the time..obivously i cut the up to fit the tune but i use them in nearly 100% of tunes (maybe a bit less for Dubstep due to its sparseness)

i use samples asewll...like if i know what sound i need, say a whistle, why would you want to make one on a synth when you can sample the real thing!!...

dance music is general is sample based....

however, presets on synths, i think is another thing, i sometimes find a preset and use it as a starting block but i have never used a present straight into a tune...mainly because i think it is impossible to just open a sound that fits directly into your tune...this is especailly true because synths/ lead sounds will often play a larger role in the overall tune then just a sample (one shot etc)...

anyway..synths are fun and making your own synth sound helps you put your own stamp on a tune!!

rendr · Post by **rendr** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:28 pm

Roistermusic wrote:Loops are silly...WTF!!

Drum breaks are an essential tool of all producers!!...it is almost impossible to recreate a live drum break feeling with single hits...drum breaks are a must..dnb wouldnt exist without loops!!

i use breaks all the time..obivously i cut the up to fit the tune but i use them in nearly 100% of tunes (maybe a bit less for Dubstep due to its sparseness)

I don't think anyone's disputing that, everyone here knows the importance of drum breaks (Amen Break, Funky Drummer, Apache Break etc.) Without sampling breaks there wouldn't be 10% of the music we have today. However there's a difference between using a classic break, and a 2 bar FX loop that someone made on a Moog and put online.

Disco Nutter · Post by **Disco Nutter** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:48 pm

Theres nothing wrong with tweaking a preset to fuck and using it

altered state · Post by **altered state** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:52 pm

First person to mention Skream wins the prize!

DZA · Post by **DZA** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:52 pm

skream

djake · Post by **djake** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:57 pm

if it works it works....why try to recreate something else if that fits perfectly?

im going to admit i have done this on the odd ocassion as sometimes when im in the moment i want it done, everyone has been there.

but that doesnt mean i havent spent weeks worth of my time processing and resampling bass.

personally i dnt have a problem with it, aslong as its within reason...taking a sample pack and putting a puzzle together with those sounds and making a track is lazy.

apathesis · Post by **apathesis** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Single hits/edit edit edit.

None of this sticking in a 4 bar loop bizniz

Do you think that using loops/presets/sample packs is 'lazy'

Do you think that using loops/presets/sample packs is 'lazy'

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