ANYONE FANCY FLYING A FEW PLANES INTO A VERY LARGE BUILDING?

[shonky]

Some of the stuff above is relevant and needs further investigation. The fact that it coincides with the events in Chile and the number of the emergency services is just that - coincidence. That this is revenge for Shrub's dad is suspect, looking to obtain massive reserves of oil aren't.

I presume that Afghanistan was attacked as that's where Al-Quaeda were training and had their base. I don't really see what if anything was to be gained from invading Afghanistan apart from that (don't think that this would be particularly good terrain to run pipelines through quite frankly). It does seem that ridding them of the Taliban was the PR spin required to get people on side.

There's blatantly no connection between Iraq and Al-Quaeda as you state, as Saddam for all his badness ran a secular society which was bad news for Islamic fundamentalists (as can be seen from the sudden uprise in sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shias since). There were no weapons of mass destruction, so people have a right to be suspicious of the motives of the US and UK in invading.

Were Mossad agents observing this before the event? How do you know the activities of their leader? Where's the proof? If you've got verifiable links paste them up here.

It seems that muslim fighters were involved in the balkans due to the involvement of US agencies requesting that they help their bredren, so it does appear that up until this point, there were obvious connections between Al-Quaeda and the US.

I do think that there's probably as much hipocracy on the Al-Quaeda's leaders as there is with ours, so if the strip club thing is true, that kinda makes sense.

Seems that the express route to heaven given to martyrs, and the accompanying 68 virgins has a kind of wierd and exploitative twist to it. As muslim males may take four wives, and pre-marital sex (although it goes on) is forbidden, a huge level of sexual frustration exists and due to polygamy, some males might never mate. Thus the repressed sexual instinct intermingled with religious belief may mean that would-be martyrs might be killing themselves in an attempt to get a girlfriend. It's in that Martin Amis essay I posted upthread if you're interested to read it.

It's no coincidence that the most violent countries on the planet are also the ones with the highest level of religious sexual repression - funny that eh.

[metalboxproducts]

@Shonky. Have you considered writing/jernalism as a career...
Actually, what do you do?

[forensix (mcr)]

@Shonky. Have you considered writing/jernalism as a career...
Actually, what do you do?

he pays my wages! (in a roundabout way)

[shonky]

@Shonky. Have you considered writing/jernalism as a career...
Actually, what do you do?

I considered it, but then realised the majority of what I'd be doing would have far more to do with covering fairly pointless coverage of local events until the opportunity arose to maybe get a job with a national paper and cover fairly pointless national events.

Depends on personality, but I think the majority of journalism is essentially just filling space between ads and the stuff I'd like to be doing doesn't really have many vacancies. I think to a large extent crusading journalism's pretty much dead.

[metalboxproducts]

@Shonky. Have you considered writing/jernalism as a career...
Actually, what do you do?

I considered it, but then realised the majority of what I'd be doing would have far more to do with covering fairly pointless coverage of local events until the opportunity arose to maybe get a job with a national paper and cover fairly pointless national events.

Depends on personality, but I think the majority of journalism is essentially just filling space between ads and the stuff I'd like to be doing doesn't really have many vacancies. I think to a large extent crusading journalism's pretty much dead.

Submit an essay to The New Internationist.

[metalboxproducts]

@Shonky. Have you considered writing/jernalism as a career...
Actually, what do you do?

he pays my wages! (in a roundabout way)

What? Are you saying he works in the job center.

[shonky]

@Shonky. Have you considered writing/jernalism as a career...
Actually, what do you do?

he pays my wages! (in a roundabout way)

What? Are you saying he works in the job center.

No, I buy the Big Issue occassionally of one of his skag whores.

[forensix (mcr)]

No, I buy the Big Issue occassionally of one of his skag whores.

Yup keeps me pimping

[metalboxproducts]

No, I buy the Big Issue occassionally of one of his skag whores.

Yup keeps me pimping

[shonky]

No, I buy the Big Issue occassionally of one of his skag whores.

Yup keeps me pimping

Pimpings not big and its not clever. Remember this is Offtopic not a nursery.

Show some respect to the bitches aight

[obiwan]

How in fucks name did five hijackers get onto every plane but one, all of Arabic orign and appearance, in America home of Arnold Schwarzenegger and True Lies style Arab hating movies. Its not like Americans weren't ridiculously paranoid and Xenophobic before the attacks, so how come the hijackers didn't get baited up before they even got through check in?

[shonky]

How in fucks name did five hijackers get onto every plane but one, all of Arabic orign and appearance, in America home of Arnold Schwarzenegger and True Lies style Arab hating movies. Its not like Americans weren't ridiculously paranoid and Xenophobic before the attacks, so how come the hijackers didn't get baited up before they even got through check in?

Erm..they bought tickets. I think that most US citizens would have been unlikely to have been thinking that the plane would be hijacked and flown into a building regardless of whether they'd be watching Arnie movies.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of US actions and arab groups reactions against them (Iraq, Libya, etc), most of this was done away from the US homeland so I can't imagine that this was a more likely scenario than being blown up walking to work. The public consciousness at the time was probably more wary of paranoid, anti-government, white supremacists who were probably the biggest terrorist threat of the time.

What I am interested in is how these people did take over the plane, as I'm pretty sure that metal detectors would have been compulsory and picked up guns or knives easily. If they weren't carrying these, how did they manage to take over an entire plane? That seems to be the biggest question to me.

[parson]

they slit some throats and scared everybody

[shonky]

they slit some throats and scared everybody

Yeah, but surely there would have been enough other passengers to stop them taking over the plane. I thought there weren't that many if you split them over three planes that I can't see why more people wouldn't have risen up knowing what was at stake. I do see that they might just have thought they were being hijacked and not known what was going to happen of course.

The other part of this that baffles me is that from the story I heard, the hijackers learnt to fly in two seater mudskippers, which would be a massive difference to flying a jumbo jet. So presumably

a/ either the pilots were co-erced into flying the planes into the towers, or
b/ someone else that was capable of flying a passenger jet other than the pilots or the hijackers flew it

I'm no expert in these matters, so there may be other options but if the pilot had the choice between flying into a building or crashing into the sea, I think they would have been trained to go for the least amount of casualties. The hijackers from what I understand would have been unable to fly the plane with the training they had. So something seems a bit awry there.

Is the throat slitting on record by the way or is this just hypothetical, as apart from a couple of mobile calls, I don't remember there being much contact from the flight?

[parson]

the people had no idea what the situation was

as far as they knew they were going to land somewhere and there would be some hostage negotiations

the one plane that figured out what was going on crashed themselves

[rickyricardo]

The other part of this that baffles me is that from the story I heard, the hijackers learnt to fly in two seater mudskippers, which would be a massive difference to flying a jumbo jet.

Not particularly. Guiding a plane is essentially the same no matter what the size....and they certainly didn't need to worry about taking off or landing.

Also, the hijackers used boxcutters to get through airport security as they weren't considered weapons at the time. There were 5 hijackers per plane...you only need one to fly, and the other 4 to protect the cockpit and look surly. Like Parson said, most passengers had no clue what was about to take place...so the best course of action at the time wasn't to go commando on the hijackers and then leave the plane without *any* pilot. The passengers on 93 only stormed the cockpit after they learned over the phone what was going on in NY, and that those guys definitly weren't gonna land the plane.

[metalboxproducts]

they slit some throats and scared everybody

Yeah, but surely there would have been enough other passengers to stop them taking over the plane. I thought there weren't that many if you split them over three planes that I can't see why more people wouldn't have risen up knowing what was at stake. I do see that they might just have thought they were being hijacked and not known what was going to happen of course.

The other part of this that baffles me is that from the story I heard, the hijackers learnt to fly in two seater mudskippers, which would be a massive difference to flying a jumbo jet. So presumably

a/ either the pilots were co-erced into flying the planes into the towers, or
b/ someone else that was capable of flying a passenger jet other than the pilots or the hijackers flew it

I'm no expert in these matters, so there may be other options but if the pilot had the choice between flying into a building or crashing into the sea, I think they would have been trained to go for the least amount of casualties. The hijackers from what I understand would have been unable to fly the plane with the training they had. So something seems a bit awry there.

Is the throat slitting on record by the way or is this just hypothetical, as apart from a couple of mobile calls, I don't remember there being much contact from the flight?

I can varifie the throat slitting. It did happen, i saw it.

[razer-wire]

i watched a documentry about the americans blowing up the other buildings themselvs their was footage of exsplosions comeing from evry floor and also tapes of firemen saying that their was an exsplosions going of evry wher

deep shit

[moderator]

How about saying; dutty filthy stinking Babylon, overweight redneck, Bigmac munching, gun toting, bible bashing, pro life/pro death penalty, illiterate, thousand channel watching, Fox news informed, inbred, European rejected, native killing, whip cracking, cracker ass cracker, honky tonk, weak beer drinkng, country music listening, shit eating smiling, tooth flossing, mall rat, have a nice day saying, school shooting, silicone titted, flag saluting izan, bunch of good honest American citizens. Would that count as offensive?