Is dubstep suffering from the 'Loudness War'?

absense · Post by **absense** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:24 pm

I was listening to the Elbow album the other day and flicking through the booklet and noticed this little note...

"To preserve the excitment, emotion and dynamics of the original performances this record is intentionally quieter than some." Turn Me Up!

While listening i had noticed how well the tracks used quiet and loud, the clear dynamics and mix of the album i had just put down to a good engineer during the mixing and mastering stage.

Turns out this http://www.turnmeup.org/ is like some organisation whos aim is to explain the loudness war. In brief, too much modern music is mastered with overall volume in mind and therefore loses definition between loud and quiet sounds.

This video explains it better...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

So anyway.. it got me thinking about dubstep, with the majority of its releases being made available on vinyl. Through my own experience the general idea is to master as loud as possible for vinyl..

..with dubstep music using such a wide range of frequenceys, surely clarity is the key? Are we losing clairty and space between bass and snare?

Interesting topic anyway I thought, what do you guys reckon?

-dubson- · Post by **-dubson-** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:26 pm

heard about this, think dnb was a big victim of the loudness war

godflesh fiend · Post by **godflesh fiend** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:32 pm

Good topic. A few metal forums have been discussing this too. Hopefully most Dubstep producers will be all about quality rather than loudness. I prefer to feel the music rather than hear it out on the dance floor and Dubstep & Dub Reggae tend to be pretty good at doing that.

neville bartos · Post by **neville bartos** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:22 pm

-Dubson- wrote:heard about this, think dnb was a big victim of the loudness war

Truesay.

djake · Post by **djake** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:24 pm

producers need to learn that the listener has a volume control.

Littlefoot · Post by **Littlefoot** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:25 pm

Transition = not loud = most dubstep mastering ok

abe_froman · Post by **abe_froman** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:28 pm

this is a pain in the ass because say your playing a few tracks in succession that have been cut really loud and your playin on shit soundsystem so you've maxed all the volumes out, and then you play a track that has been cut quietly, it loses all the energy you built up from previous tracks.

There should be a certain db that all vinyl is cut to so this doesn't happen cos its a right ball ache

young soundman · Post by **young soundman** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:27 pm

djake wrote:producers need to learn that the listener has a volume control.

yh very true...its also to do with the concentration of the mix...which is mostly the sub within the tune..i noticed alot of tunes become very cloudy when the volume is raised ...and in my knowledge...thats mainly to do with the sub frequency.

lukki · Post by **lukki** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:04 pm

Abe_Froman wrote:...have been cut really loud and your playin on shit soundsystem so you've maxed all the volumes out

Maxing out your gains and volume on your mixer is NEVER the solution. In fact, doing that on any good system will make it sound shit...

kani · Post by **kani** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:23 pm

Not sure if its that good of a reference, but looking at the waveforms on the Chemical Deck player has an awful lot of them looking like solid bars with one dip for a breakdown.
dynamics are your friend.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:31 pm

lukki wrote:
Abe_Froman wrote:...have been cut really loud and your playin on shit soundsystem so you've maxed all the volumes out
Maxing out your gains and volume on your mixer is NEVER the solution. In fact, doing that on any good system will make it sound shit...

this.

no mixer is meant to be used in the reds. yellows should be your maximum.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:32 pm

yeah, and not just in terms of mastering

datura · Post by **datura** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:36 pm

Corpsey wrote:yeah, and not just in terms of mastering

I was making the same point to someone a few weeks back. It seems to be the way with a lot of nights that the whole point seems to be how loud they can get the system, rather than getting good definition. It's always been a physical music, but I've felt almost nauseous at the level of certain rigs, and the midranges have been ear shredding.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:48 pm

I'm not really referring to that but it ties in with what I was referring to, which is more the pursuit of inyerface extremity in productions of a certain type. I suppose over-loud rigs, overcompressed mixdowns and ridiculously extreme wobbles all point to a shift in expectations... As always the irony is that the more these extreme things are used the less shocking/exciting they become, just as the LOUDER the mixdown is designed to be, the more that dynamics are pushed out of the mix...

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:34 pm

as far as dubstep is concerned, the majority of tunes that make it to a vinyl pressing are very well mixed/mastered-- not hearing a ton of overcompression on stuff.

can't say the same for d&b, though there's a whole world of d&b that isn't all aggy-midrange stuff.

dirty · Post by **dirty** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:43 pm

seckle wrote: no mixer is meant to be used in the reds. yellows should be your maximum.

have to agree, its amazing how people don't realise that going into the red means distortion on the audio.

mike honcho · Post by **mike honcho** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:45 pm

yes, this is totally what happened to drum and bass. Overkill thinking its going to "smash the place".

Hope it does not happen within this genre.

young soundman · Post by **young soundman** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:48 pm

DIRTY wrote:
seckle wrote: no mixer is meant to be used in the reds. yellows should be your maximum.
have to agree, its amazing how people don't realise that going into the red means distortion on the audio.

the main focus 4 this really is 2 achieve a mix for the type of song your making ...since dubstep is the topic ..the main thing is the sub and bass textures like i said b4...and the concentration of the tune shud revolve around the bass and sub textures, so really all thats needed is for you to mold a mix for the sub which allows the energy of the sub to boom through without overpowering the rest of the mix..it shouldnt have enything to do with the volume.the mixers volume should be set on default.

dirty · Post by **dirty** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:49 pm

on a side note, the system in Plastic People a few years ago was perfect.

Remember going on thurs nights to fwd and the level they had for the first couple acts of night was so warm, a really good environment to hear dubstep.

Something I felt FWD always had of DMZ, never really enjoyed the listening experience in Brixton Mass

dirty · Post by **dirty** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:54 pm

Young SoundMan wrote:
DIRTY wrote:
seckle wrote: no mixer is meant to be used in the reds. yellows should be your maximum.
have to agree, its amazing how people don't realise that going into the red means distortion on the audio.
the main focus 4 this really is 2 achieve a mix for the type of song your making ...since dubstep is the topic ..the main thing is the sub and bass textures like i said b4...and the concentration of the tune shud revolve around the bass and sub textures, so really all thats needed is for you to mold a mix for the sub which allows the energy of the sub to boom through without overpowering the rest of the mix..it shouldnt have enything to do with the volume.the mixers volume should be set on default.

Sorry, that wasn't really on the topic of your post, was just agreeing with seckle and the other geezer

Is dubstep suffering from the 'Loudness War'?

Is dubstep suffering from the 'Loudness War'?

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