Self-boring barrel spigots

[human?]

Yeah, exactly

and also the jungle influence is HUGE, and he ridiculously underrates the importance of garage to dubstep

but what were garage djs spinnin in 94?

and who put together acid house & breakbeats first?

[dq]

crunc tesla is a bright dude and makes a lot of decent points but he has completely missed the thing that UK urban culture has which US urban culture does not, which was completely essential to the development of dubstep and which DOES make it primarily a UK innovation:

JAMAICAN CULTURE

from the importance of soundsystems, to bass, to dubplates, to the space of the sound, to the ways that reggae producers use dub FX. all of those things are the produce of people in the UK growing up with reggae in a way that americans don't. while it's true that kids in urban london love american hip hop and definitely have always been inspired by producers like timbaland etc, to reduce dubstep and grime to an offshoot of american southern hip hop is just ignorant of the very unique influences and cultural realities that made dubstep possible.

tell that to kool herc...

not to mention miami bass culture being highly islands influenced

i understand the point you're making, but anyone who has been to london and seen a jamaican restaurant on every block, and heard roots reggae and dub on the radio at all times of day, and seen the extent to which black london culture is jamaican knows that there's no comparison to the small pockets of jamaican culture in american cities. yes there are plenty of examples including kool herc and miami bass, but let's face it 90% of black folks in london are of caribbean decent, compared to maybe 5% in the US (i'm just taking a wild guess here but you get my point). what that means is that almost EVERYBODY in london has an understanding of the musical heritage of reggae. there is simply no comparison to the US at all, and that's why the scene that created dubstep could not have happened in america.

[gonzales246]

anyone-else thinking that 'human' is crunktosser in disgiuse?

[reptilian]

my point tho, OF COURSE "dubstep" evolved in UK... theres no debating that...


but its not a isolated phenomena..

you just cant look at these things in a linear fashion

true

look at loefah, he's well influenced by hip hop

doesn't mean you can say mud or goat stare (for example) are hip hop tracks cos they're not, they're definitely something significantly different and unique

[gonzales246]

anyone-else thinking that 'human' is crunktosser in disgiuse?

[reptilian]

anyone-else thinking that 'human' is crunktosser in disgiuse?

not really

although

"crunctosser - human in disguise"

sounds pretty funny sang to the transformers theme tune

[tavravlavish]

hah when I listen to spaceape on that one burial song ali g always comes to mind.

[JazzyJazzy]

wanker.

couldnt have put it any better myself

[human?]

my point tho, OF COURSE "dubstep" evolved in UK... theres no debating that...


but its not a isolated phenomena..

you just cant look at these things in a linear fashion

true

look at loefah, he's well influenced by hip hop

doesn't mean you can say mud or goat stare (for example) are hip hop tracks cos they're not, they're definitely something significantly different and unique

for me, its all Hiphop... because thats the culture i live and the lens i see music through.

thats not taking away anything from anyone, i dont care very much for genre names or nationalism.

youths makin beats to rock a dance with two turntables and a mic is Hiphop to ME. it is what it is to you, and so on and so forth...

[gonzales246]

"crunctosser - human in disguise"

sounds pretty funny sang to the transformers theme tune

hahaha

[kuma]

dubstep was invented by the vatican during the crusades.

[reptilian]

youths makin beats to rock a dance with two turntables and a mic is Hiphop to ME. it is what it is to you, and so on and so forth...

if thats how you want to look at if fair enough

but basically dub preceded hip hop and also involved two turntables and a mic but you wouldn't go round saying all hip hop was dub

(not saying thats what you're saying - guess thats more aimed at mr crunctesla)

[human?]

youths makin beats to rock a dance with two turntables and a mic is Hiphop to ME. it is what it is to you, and so on and so forth...

if thats how you want to look at if fair enough

but basically dub preceded hip hop and also involved two turntables and a mic but you wouldn't go round saying all hip hop was dub

no i wouldnt say that, because like i said before, its just not possible to look at any of this in a linear fashion.

kool herc def brought a jamaican style of party rockin to the bronx & incorporated it with american funk & soul... when Hiphop was HIPHOP there wasnt any such thing as a Hiphop record, and if you listen to the recordings, dudes were playing EVERYTHING, including dub... and the MC aspect was a combination of radio deejays and jamaican toasting...

and none of this happened in isolation. by the mid eighties you can hear Hiphop's influence in reggae music....



*edit* but yeh, my point again, its all one family of music.

where its made and what its called are interesting footnotes, but whats REALLY interesting to me is how connected it all really is, and the people who make it, and the sounds themselves... cross polinate & evolve steadily, to the point NOW where geography & genre are pretty much irrelevant and the essence, rockin a dance, is all that matters.

[werd2jah]

is someone tryin to say that hip hop wasnt birth from reggae or what?

jamaican culture is the roots of hip hop and most of the uk urban music

when it all comes down to it reggae is da father

end of arguement

[human?]

is someone tryin to say that hip hop wasnt birth from reggae or what?

jamaican culture is the roots of hip hop and most of the uk urban music

when it all comes down to it reggae is da father

end of arguement

nobody is sayin that at all, what thread are you reading?

but again, looking at it like that, in a purely linear fashion, misses the point.

jamaican influence in Hiphop is undeniable, just like its undeniable that dubstep evolved in the UK.

but soul & funk had just as much to do with Hiphop as jamaican music.

cats were rapping in the US long before anything was called Hiphop....




re emphasized again for clarity... any linear discussion of the evolution of music is doomed.

[chimpo]

The point about the influence of Timbaland is a good one - I have said for a long time that he is probably more responsible than anyone for the idea that a beat running at sub-80bpm (but with some double time elements) is still danceable, and that helped make dubstep what it is... There's a great DJ mix that Geiom did a while back that kicks off with a Timbaland beat and it makes perfect sense.

But other than that the guy is clearly - how do you Americans say? - a douche.

exactly what i thought
the timbaland things right, hes definately a big influence on grime and dubstep but apart from that the guy is an eeeeeeeeeeediat

and bassline is not a new form of hip hop, its a new form of house

bet this guy thinks reggae was invented by mad lion

[skrewface]

I stopped at "wheather".

It's not even like he just used the wrong version of whether/weather, he actually combined the two.

ROFLMAOZEDUNG

[chimpo]

hahaaaa just clocked that

[werd2jah]

umm no cats was "rappin" b4 reggae hit the u.s.

check yo history man

also i know new yorkers love to say hip hop was born out of they city

wonder where the majority of u.s. jamaican immigrants were when that all happened

it was a jamaican dj who brought over dubs and started toastin over em, u.s. peeps didnt like it (big surprise)

so he took old disco tunes/instrumentals and started toastin over that and it caught on

now once the market for this new genre of music became flooded, thats when all the different elements came to play (it had to or the genre would have grown stale)

which is why most genres pull from each other, to keep things fresh and new

but reggae birthed hip hop man if yu think its some other way then anything yu say is boo boo

[human?]

umm no cats was "rappin" b4 reggae hit the u.s.

check yo history man

also i know new yorkers love to say hip hop was born out of they city

wonder where the majority of u.s. jamaican immigrants were when that all happened

it was a jamaican dj who brought over dubs and started toastin over em, u.s. peeps didnt like it (big surprise)

so he took old disco tunes/instrumentals and started toastin over that and it caught on

now once the market for this new genre of music became flooded, thats when all the different elements came to play (it had to or the genre would have grown stale)

which is why most genres pull from each other, to keep things fresh and new

but reggae birthed hip hop man if yu think its some other way then anything yu say is boo boo

lol.

yeh, you know your music well....

i guess then last poets never existed? gil scott heron is imaginary? etc etc

dude, please....

im actually sayin exactly the opposite of what you are arguing against, calm your neck, re-read... you will actually find out im the one defending Jamaican influences...

*edit* thats the thing tho, you are looking at the music THROUGH a reggae lens... just dont confuse your lens (which is a usefull tool) for the music itself... thats where what you are sayin fails... you see it as all reggae, i see it as all Hiphop, the next man hears all garage etc etc, so it goes... but the reality is there isnt anything linear, its all one, and evolves together.