Can you tell the difference between...

[dubmugga]

^^^ bad company started techstep thing
who the fuck told u that
when first techstep tunes were released guys from bad company probably didn't knew what dnb is
first techstep releases 1995/1996
bad company formed in 1999 - actually they formed when techstep was pretty strong

bla bla bla...

all that spiel and you pull me up on that ???

from what i can gather tech step formed around 97 as an evolution of certain producers sound coming from jungle most notably ed rush and optical and maybe as a reaction to the nice and friendly *ahem*intelligent*cough* stuff of LTJ and reprazent...

...the thing there is early ed rush stuff like bludclot art attack was jungle and they as an act evolved to techstep from that but it was acts like )EIB( who started out only doing techstep that popularised it

hmmmmm....

...interesting parallels there with dubstep from the garage head originators who evolved out of that and the late steppers who have just picked up from now and were never into garage but are sure to be the ones to popularise it

given that then, expect the scenes fractured nature to crystallise sounds into new sub genres while still coming under the dubstep banner yet behind all of it and to those not electronically minded it's all techno innit ???

ATTN :journos...stand by, pens at the ready, brains tuned to low frequency, time for a new name, make way for the new gunz...

...and yeah Gutter, we might just have to, as culturally only we can and I'm not talking urban clublife monoculture which is pretty generic the world over but ol skool polynesian, sound as weapons and means of recording history

at some stage we're gonna have to get back to nature by more than just smoking weed

while you're at it whats a good name for what we do ???

I'm still partial to flotsam or jetsam or maybe F'N'J in line with our maritime traditions
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=flotsam

r33lc4sh, i suppose the reason we haven't done it yet is cos i only just thought of it and we're still carving out a unique production sound. The time seems ripe though so maybe we reincarnate as something other than HELL _SD to reflect our own unique musical heritage

I mean shit, at least it'll be more relevent than dark film samples, mid eastern woodwinds and asian percussion...

...it'd be so easy too as most/all of our tunes are unreleased and the backbeats we can cannibalise and reinterpret

fuck it, hold tight for the nu year then...

...let's reawaken the dead in the galactic underground and retune the planet to a more harmonious vibration

or not

[r33lc4sh]

dubmugga
there was a compilation called Techsteppin (emotif lp01) in 1996 which is said to be first techstep LP - the thing which gathered all the representatives of the new sound
actually in 1997 when No U Turn released Torque album techstep was rather established genre and from that time till bad company formed gathered lots of followers also outside uk (to mention only Panacea who released his first album on postion chrome in 1996 and Makai - both from germany)
so saying that bad company started techstep is like saying that scuba started dubstep
and to be precise not actually asian percussion - it's from northern africa - and woodwinds are mostly from the osman musical heritage not arab which is positioned in turkey, balkans and caucasus region and not in the part of the world we use to call middle-east

[dubmugga]

...nice one man, I stand corrected

good to know that shit...

...and in future history, scuba will be noted as having started bubblestep

so do you think all those influences of exotic strings, woodwinds, percussion and electronica are consciously reflective of the multicultural practitioners of dubstep infusing the sound with a jamaican sensibility towards soundsystems and dub coming together in the melting pot of lower class urban london or is it just random poaching, pilfering and sampling without recourse towards copyright infringement indicative of nearly all undeground genres in their infancy...bla bla bla ad infinitum ???

random harmonic fluctuations in a quantum field implying non locality or reflective of the global monoculture raping indigenous resources for it's own needs and to hell with the consequences...

chaos or order, albeit a new world one ???

yeah i been on the good stuff lately

[r33lc4sh]

...and in future history, scuba will be noted as having started bubblestep

hehehehehhe good one

so do you think all those influences of exotic strings, woodwinds, percussion and electronica are consciously reflective of the multicultural practitioners of dubstep infusing the sound with a jamaican sensibility towards soundsystems and dub coming together in the melting pot of lower class urban london or is it just random poaching, pilfering and sampling without recourse towards copyright infringement indicative of nearly all undeground genres in their infancy...bla bla bla ad infinitum ???

i can speak only for myself and in my case it looks like that:
1. i have some family connections with balkan region so in some or other way i feel connected with this musical heritage
2. i'm really into that sound and culture (i'm writing my MA diploma on turkish tribes and their role in polish eastern politics in first half of XVII century)
3. all the ethnic sounds i use are taken from my really deep digging into native releases of that region - i'd rather don't use commercial sample banks - i just look for the sounds by myslef and i really feel them - i was using this kind of sounds since i've started producing electronic stuff around 5 years ago - it was in my dark electro shit, it was in my dnb and breakcore shit and it's here in my dubstep/breakstep shit
that's the sound i feel and i know and actually that's my sound
and i like dark movies samples - reminiscence from the times when i was into industrial and ebm
all that was make us now

[tekblazer]

I think you'll find that d'n'b/jungle casts a MASSIVE shadow over the whole dubstep thang. You say there's no 'breaks' influence with Loefah, but his roots are totally in jungle - i saw him play an old skool jungle set recently..it's in his fuckin blood, man. and he told me that he's thinking of incorporating breaks in his productions soon., though just little snippets of things...little hits and edits rather than full rollin' loops.

Plasticman is pure UKG roots...and if you can't tell the difference between his shit and Loefah's, your ears are fucked.

root/goatstare is like pretty much reinventing tekstep for the 2nd heavy wave. Yeah, jungle massive.

[gutter]

while you're at it whats a good name for what we do ???

I'm already calling it Kiwistep

[gutter]

so do you think all those influences of exotic strings, woodwinds, percussion and electronica are consciously reflective of the multicultural practitioners of dubstep infusing the sound with a jamaican sensibility towards soundsystems and dub coming together in the melting pot of lower class urban london or is it just random poaching, pilfering and sampling without recourse towards copyright infringement indicative of nearly all undeground genres in their infancy...bla bla bla ad infinitum ???

Who knows what motivates these things...I was wondering aloud about that at the blog back in January. You got Cyrus grabbing stuff from sample cds...Shackleton injecting Turkish flavaz on his latest 12" (which is fuckin lush - just received it this morning, big up Skull Disco crew - YER LARGE!!!!)...everyone gotta follow their path, but it's always special when you get a really personal statement from the artist's own environment.

[m9918868]

so do you think all those influences of exotic strings, woodwinds, percussion and electronica are consciously reflective of the multicultural practitioners of dubstep infusing the sound with a jamaican sensibility towards soundsystems and dub coming together in the melting pot of lower class urban london or is it just random poaching, pilfering and sampling without recourse towards copyright infringement indicative of nearly all undeground genres in their infancy...bla bla bla ad infinitum ???

Who knows what motivates these things...I was wondering aloud about that at the blog back in January. You got Cyrus grabbing stuff from sample cds...Shackleton injecting Turkish flavaz on his latest 12" (which is fuckin lush - just received it this morning, big up Skull Disco crew - YER LARGE!!!!)...everyone gotta follow their path, but it's always special when you get a really personal statement from the artist's own environment.

Honestly i'm afraid it's based in an unconscious (and well-documented within the fields of anthropology) fascination with exotism, so typical for Western society rather than a well aware reflection on multiculturalism. Hence the succes of tracks (both amongst producers and the ordinary listeners) like monsoon, snake charmer, etc.

[r33lc4sh]

i thinks that most important thing is that we live in a truly post-modern culture and multiculturalism have nothing to do with this
everything was - nothing left new to invent
all the cultural activities are constant quotations
we take a bit from here, bit from there and create a new being of that which was
dubstep is a typicall post-modern thing

[dubway]

i can speak only for myself and in my case it looks like that:
1. i have some family connections with balkan region so in some or other way i feel connected with this musical heritage
2. i'm really into that sound and culture (i'm writing my MA diploma on turkish tribes and their role in polish eastern politics in first half of XVII century)
3. all the ethnic sounds i use are taken from my really deep digging into native releases of that region - i'd rather don't use commercial sample banks - i just look for the sounds by myslef and i really feel them - i was using this kind of sounds since i've started producing electronic stuff around 5 years ago - it was in my dark electro shit, it was in my dnb and breakcore shit and it's here in my dubstep/breakstep shit
that's the sound i feel and i know and actually that's my sound
and i like dark movies samples - reminiscence from the times when i was into industrial and ebm
all that was make us now

sounds very interesting.. given that i live and breathe in balkan..
would like to hear some of your stuff

[unlikely]

while you're at it whats a good name for what we do ???

I'm already calling it Kiwistep

your stuff sounds a lot like psy trance to me (sorry)

squatstep?

crustybop?

ketastep?

I've noticed the style of beats change quite a lot since the dnb crowd took notice, a bit more formula, "better" engineering etc. Not all good in my opinion but when it does work it pushes the scene forwards. It's only in the past year I would say I produce/mix dubstep and grime as oppposed to garage (which till recently dubstep and grime were a part of), so it seems a bit odd driving in the wedge so soon.. its still garage, not drum n bass. Look at the tempo! And listen to some early Narrows etc. thats still techier than most of the stuff around now

[j_j]

while you're at it whats a good name for what we do ???

I'm already calling it Kiwistep

your stuff sounds a lot like psy trance to me (sorry)

squatstep?

crustybop?

ketastep?

I've noticed the style of beats change quite a lot since the dnb crowd took notice, a bit more formula, "better" engineering etc. Not all good in my opinion but when it does work it pushes the scene forwards. It's only in the past year I would say I produce/mix dubstep and grime as oppposed to garage (which till recently dubstep and grime were a part of), so it seems a bit odd driving in the wedge so soon.. its still garage, not drum n bass. Look at the tempo! And listen to some early Narrows etc. thats still techier than most of the stuff around now

BRAP!!! 140 BPM !!!! doesnt matter what sounds u use. it matter s the momentum and rhythm of the tune that creates the feel u want to get.
keep it DUTTY !!!!!
i think in britain we do it a lot easier cuz really were all referancing british dance music and culture we grew up with plus our pirate radio lets us get out our own music with absolutley no comprimise for the 'industry' or average listener and this is rare and priceless to us .
dubstep and grime are the next manifestation of british street sounds.
it just ahppens to be that bristish street sounds define for the rest of the world whats going on in music and takes it to the next level as did jungle ,rave ,garage ,dnb ,which are all pointing a finger towards what were doing now .but now we have gone up a level.Skream is 19 !!!! .young british street music not conceptualised pretentious art directed towards a genre.
GET ME ?!
J

[dubmugga]

I get you J_J, but the musical references and heritage skream has to draw on have been in the public domain for well over a decade and we have followed that through to the evolution of our sound...

I grew up always being on the ear out for the next wave in electronica and being in NZ, geography didn't really matter, still doesn't

...we're not cloning skream or anybody so it's not young british street music we're making but it does blend well with it

If we're pointing the finger, it's at the rest of the bullshit young british street music has inherited from it's past that it probably needs to drop or long term it'll suffer for it...

in short, vinyl needs to die and the UK is lagging

...the more you try and hold on to something the greater the pain when it gets taken from you, Iknow it's hard but you need to wean yourselves off that wax addiction

we don't make compromises for the industry, we make it for the dancefloor. If we cared what the industry thought we wouldn't use cracked software, would clear all our samples and register ou tunes with copyright agnecies. We are so far underground that if you dug a hole straight through the UK on out the other side we'd be waiting with a beer and a spliff and some phat tunes to listen to...

BTW Gutter, kiwistep is what small flightless birds native to NZ take in the bush cos they can't fly, what're you saying ??? I'm going with F'n'J

unlikely...

...of course there is a psy element in what we do as reference to the drug fuelled nature of EDM and the associated headfuck, that aspect is aimed at the dance floor for cross appeal and hopefully makes our stuff quite blendable with other genres and yes there is a hypnotic trance element in there also by virtue of the subliminal vox and effects and reinforcement through repetition

theres also a lot of early detroit techno in our hi hats and numerous references to 4 on th floor but is not like classic or pure examples of the many genres we reflect, it's all made with a punk/hiphop philosophy. It is what it is, 21st century electronica...

...a reflection of us as people and our history within the global EDM scene but all that is gonna change soon to reflect us as pasifikan descendents

conceptualised, pretentious art is as good as dutty street music and it's all coming together not only in music but across the board in film, gaming, grafik design...

...objective/subjective, whatever, just feel it, live it, breathe it, let it move you but understand why it does

as george michael said listen without prejudice, just cos he's batty doesn't mean his tunes are shit and just cos i'm an arsehole sometimes doen't mean our beats are wack either...

...fuck me, i can talk some shit and that's OK cos thats pretty much what the net is good for. If it seems over intellectualised and contrived it's mostly as Blackdown said in hindsight with regard to the music

really theres not that much in dance music that should be intelligent...

...so anyway is it mostly still about dance music cos there seems to be a lot of dubstep stuff that quite frankly i can't dance to ???

[gutter]

...fuck me, i can talk some shit and that's OK cos thats pretty much what the net is good for. If it seems over intellectualised and contrived it's mostly as Blackdown said in hindsight with regard to the music

...fuck me, nearly as much shit as me! ever thought of starting yer own blog, dubmugga?!

[dubmugga]

^^^hah tried it

but it was too much like talking to myself...

...blogging is like taking your clothes off in public and hoping someone is watching, forums are like airing your dirty laundry in public hoping no one will notice you're naked

i think i work better in a dynamic interactive forum type of thing and in response to others

or maybe i don't...

don't like playing with myself , don't play well with others, but you should see me round the ladies

I don't think ladymugga would appreciate the extra effort involved in spending even more time staring at a screen and ignoring her

on topic though, I do hope the recent migrants colonising the dubstep landscape bring more than just production skills. If there is a lesson to be learnt from d'n'b it's...

...innovate don't imitate

oh and if you can make the ladies shake they asses you're in

[j_j]

I get you J_J, but the musical references and heritage skream has to draw on have been in the public domain for well over a decade and we have followed that through to the evolution of our sound...

I grew up always being on the ear out for the next wave in electronica and being in NZ, geography didn't really matter, still doesn't

...we're not cloning skream or anybody so it's not young british street music we're making but it does blend well with it

If we're pointing the finger, it's at the rest of the bullshit young british street music has inherited from it's past that it probably needs to drop or long term it'll suffer for it...

in short, vinyl needs to die and the UK is lagging

...the more you try and hold on to something the greater the pain when it gets taken from you, Iknow it's hard but you need to wean yourselves off that wax addiction

we don't make compromises for the industry, we make it for the dancefloor. If we cared what the industry thought we wouldn't use cracked software, would clear all our samples and register ou tunes with copyright agnecies. We are so far underground that if you dug a hole straight through the UK on out the other side we'd be waiting with a beer and a spliff and some phat tunes to listen to...

BTW Gutter, kiwistep is what small flightless birds native to NZ take in the bush cos they can't fly, what're you saying ??? I'm going with F'n'J

unlikely...

...of course there is a psy element in what we do as reference to the drug fuelled nature of EDM and the associated headfuck, that aspect is aimed at the dance floor for cross appeal and hopefully makes our stuff quite blendable with other genres and yes there is a hypnotic trance element in there also by virtue of the subliminal vox and effects and reinforcement through repetition

theres also a lot of early detroit techno in our hi hats and numerous references to 4 on th floor but is not like classic or pure examples of the many genres we reflect, it's all made with a punk/hiphop philosophy. It is what it is, 21st century electronica...

...a reflection of us as people and our history within the global EDM scene but all that is gonna change soon to reflect us as pasifikan descendents

conceptualised, pretentious art is as good as dutty street music and it's all coming together not only in music but across the board in film, gaming, grafik design...

...objective/subjective, whatever, just feel it, live it, breathe it, let it move you but understand why it does

as george michael said listen without prejudice, just cos he's batty doesn't mean his tunes are shit and just cos i'm an arsehole sometimes doen't mean our beats are wack either...

...fuck me, i can talk some shit and that's OK cos thats pretty much what the net is good for. If it seems over intellectualised and contrived it's mostly as Blackdown said in hindsight with regard to the music

really theres not that much in dance music that should be intelligent...

...so anyway is it mostly still about dance music cos there seems to be a lot of dubstep stuff that quite frankly i can't dance to ???

bruv u dribble meaningless shit ????!?!?!??!!
Skream hsant been referencing music form the past ten years either u yet agin miss the point completely .
dubmugga go to a trance forum and crck on mate cuz ur fucking nowhere near this .
see dubmugga u go on about ur shiotty detroit techno hi hats but are u from detroit ?
do the people in detroit whi droip the hats go 'oh ok time for some detroit hats ' ??no its just done .
'back on the bogn' doesnt referebce any tebn year shit mate ur full of crap .
maybe where ur from there is no style so u look elsewhwre .
and as for ur headfuck shit
well
WELL DONE!
thats really amazing production lol

[dubmugga]

dribble dribble meaningless shit...whatever

I am so full of crap...

...sorry bro

peace and love to you and yours...

[stone]

in short, vinyl needs to die and the UK is lagging

...the more you try and hold on to something the greater the pain when it gets taken from you, I know it's hard but you need to wean yourselves off that wax addiction

why are you so against vinyl? VINYL WILL NEVER DIE. it is not just a UK thing. Vinyl is popular all over the world. A music scene that exists purely in digital format would never work in my humble opinion. who knows what the future holds though???

really there's not that much in dance music that should be intelligent...

...so anyway is it mostly still about dance music cos there seems to be a lot of dubstep stuff that quite frankly i can't dance to ???

haha, how is music supposed to sound intelligent anyway? IDM is supposed to sound intelligent. It is kind of an elitist concept. any music that sounds good to me sounds intelligent. I am really into the fact that I can listen to dubstep when i am sitting in my room even though it is dance music. dubstep is SO much more interesting than d'n'b to me (I admit though that I have not been exposed to the really good old skool stuff when it was just called jungle). I remember first hearing d'n'b in high school and being a little disappointed by it. even though it sounded really amazing, it was SO repetitious. When I later heard IDM, I thought that this was the kind of music I expected d'n'b to be.

I like dubstep even more than IDM. in IDM you will hear an amazing bar, but you will only hear it once. With dubstep, there is just enough repetition to give the beats a lot of weight/significance without sounding too boring to the trained ear [people who truly love electronic music as opposed to 'uh is this techno?']

[mr. messer]

above all i really dont mean to inadverntently boy you all but... maybe... actually... yea... i dont have to get involved. im not gettin involved. but, yea, dubway, maybe we can ave another section of this forum called 'Politics and Theory'.

tunes can be kept here. the banter over what is probably just going to resolve itself in the future when people start to realise that the music is still what we make of it and has not essentially come into its own yet, can be squashed over there.

[dubmugga]

...in short DD

vinyl costs too much to make per unit, the turnaround time is too long, the weight adds freight costs, they damage easily and are hard to replace...

...with stuff like serato scratch you get all the vinyl advantages with none of the above

the competition then in a purely digital format is amongst the tunes and marketing strategies, not artists/labels who have access to the vinyl presses or have the most money to get em pressed...

...as more tunes become available the fight to get heard on existing quality labels will increase and there will be if there is not already a bottleneck of quality tunes trying to squeeze through a narrow opening and frankly it just isn't worth it to start a label based solely on diminishing vinyl returns just to amp your own tunes

I bet every label worth it's shit has a full release schedule for next year and that is not even accounting for tunes yet to be produced in 06...

as for a politics and theory section that's a bit over the top especially when its just peeps like me gettin irie, overthinking and talking shit about stuff. It ain't no big thing just bullshit internet chatter, here today, forgotten tomorrow and rehashed in the future...