When do you have to start mastering your music ?

[kidlogic]

So they don't touch your original work? All they do is add limiters, compressors, and eq?

Yup, but they have some very nice outboard gear to do that which will beat any software you or I have hands down. Leave it to the pros, is blatantly the best port of call.

So is that what Pro Tools is for or can you make beats with it too? Don't have much xp with what pro tools does.

pro tools is just what's generally used in most professional recording studios
it's just a different daw

And it rivals Nuendo, no? One (if not only difference) is that Nuendo is used for vids as well, no?

And I'd like to hear how/why it became/is the industry standard, as opposed to Logic for example.

It became the industry standard because they were one of the first companies with a viable digital system, thanks to their external processing system. Pro-Tools has exsisted in some form since the late 80s I believe. The rest since the mid 90s. Its what a lot of engineers learned on when they went digital, so its what theyre comfortable with. For recording audio and more band type mixdowns, it really cant be beat, especially when its built into an SSL console, or synced to a Neve. For electronic music production, its a bit clunky, cause it was never intended to be used that way really. I did hear that the newest version (cant remember if its out yet or not) focuses more on the electronic music/midi side of things and has overcome alot of the problems people used to complain about with it.

As for the OP's question... I would master if you were gonna play your stuff out on a big system regularly. If its just for your personal use and you think the mixdown is decent, and sounds good compared to released tunes I wouldnt bother until its time to sell it.

[Mad_EP]

Seriously- I wouldn't worry about it until you have some releases coming out... at which point the label should pay for it. And if you find yourself in a situation where you are releasing with a legitimate label and they won't pay for proper mastering, then I would re-think the release.

As for wanting to learn to do it themselves... I never find that really works. I think it is imperative to get a fresh set of ears to do the last touches. Work on your mixes so they are as good as possible- and then, STILL get a trusted mastering engineer to give your tracks a final blessing. It isn't that one is incapable of both mixing and mastering-- it is just that the composer will no longer be objective after working so long on a mix.

[SickMan D]

it is just that the composer will no longer be objective after working so long on a mix.

This.

[legend4ry]

Well - no matter how good the ME is, a shit mix down is a shit mix down...

The "you can't polish a turd" effect..


So if your tunes mix is good and you want to have a nice finished product to play out / its getting signed and you want to get your own mastering.. Then do it other than that i'd just make sure the mix is as best as I can get it..

[kapital]

So is that what Pro Tools is for or can you make beats with it too? Don't have much xp with what pro tools does.

pro tools is just what's generally used in most professional recording studios
it's just a different daw

And it rivals Nuendo, no? One (if not only difference) is that Nuendo is used for vids as well, no?

And I'd like to hear how/why it became/is the industry standard, as opposed to Logic for example.

It became the industry standard because they were one of the first companies with a viable digital system, thanks to their external processing system. Pro-Tools has exsisted in some form since the late 80s I believe. The rest since the mid 90s. Its what a lot of engineers learned on when they went digital, so its what theyre comfortable with. For recording audio and more band type mixdowns, it really cant be beat, especially when its built into an SSL console, or synced to a Neve. For electronic music production, its a bit clunky, cause it was never intended to be used that way really. I did hear that the newest version (cant remember if its out yet or not) focuses more on the electronic music/midi side of things and has overcome alot of the problems people used to complain about with it.

As for the OP's question... I would master if you were gonna play your stuff out on a big system regularly. If its just for your personal use and you think the mixdown is decent, and sounds good compared to released tunes I wouldnt bother until its time to sell it.

Yeh man. i was mixing down a 32 track band recording (yes 32!) last night from 9pm till 5am. Its a protools HD rig with a comprehensive 24 ins/outs. Its ideal when working with hardware, for example a nice class A compressor on the vocals, then re-record it back into protools. Its the standard for recorded sounds, although i wouldn't like to sequence on it. I will leave logic for that!
But yeah in short, its not really an electronic musicians friend, used more for live recording and post production.

32????? How come?

[magnetron_sputtering]

Uh ok so I was going to wait for the Bible to be updated but I may as well ask here...

Following the advice in the gain structure thread, I believe I have a half-decent mix on my tracks. The big problem is that I have the monitors up way louder than I would have them if I was just listening to some tunes. Am I right in saying one of the things a ME does is to make things louder? I have no expectations of getting signed anytime soon but it'd be nice to be able to stick one of my own on in the car without having to crank up the volume to near max just to be able to hear it.

What does a ME do to make stuff louder? Anything I can try at home?

[macc]

Some brief thoughts as I have a few minutes, hope it helps.

- Something is ready when you don’t know what else you can possibly do to make it better.

- When comparing to tracks by your favourite artists, turn down their tracks to be *exactly* the same subjective level as yours (as best you can). Even half a dB makes a big difference. If your quality/tone/power/balls/class are close, or pretty good or whatever then you have a good mixdown AND you have left the room for a good ME to do their thing properly.

- Master bus processing (speaking in generalities here): if you have done stuff to the master bus to try to make the mix LOUD – limiting/clipping/compression/multiband shit/whatever – then turn it off.

If you have done something to the master bus to make it sound GOOD – mixing through a fat or cool-sounding unit/plugin with good character/nice eq/slight touch of ‘glue’/proper analogue gear/whatever – then leave it on BUT be ready to submit a version with it off as well, and let your ME choose. They may well have better ways/gear to achieve a similar effect, but better.

- Referring to the LOUD thing above – trying to make your mixdown loud by smashing it before sending it to your ME is almost always detrimental to the final quality. If the thing is distorting every time the bass hits, there’s no way of getting rid of it properly. Think of it like toast, the ME can scrape the burned bits off but it never tastes like well-made toast.


- ‘Mastering’ your own mixes: If you want to make your own tracks loud for playing out and so on, IMO then *perhaps* some compression if needed and then use limiting to set the level. If you’re messing with EQ/width/balances/tone of whole mix/tone of elements etc then why didn’t you do it in the mix? (see first point above!).

Got to run…. Hope this helps a bit.

[pets bud]

Uh ok so I was going to wait for the Bible to be updated but I may as well ask here...

Following the advice in the gain structure thread, I believe I have a half-decent mix on my tracks. The big problem is that I have the monitors up way louder than I would have them if I was just listening to some tunes. Am I right in saying one of the things a ME does is to make things louder? I have no expectations of getting signed anytime soon but it'd be nice to be able to stick one of my own on in the car without having to crank up the volume to near max just to be able to hear it.

What does a ME do to make stuff louder? Anything I can try at home?

If you just want to make your stuff sound louder add a maximiser to your main track, also a compressor works fine because it will silence the loudest parts to avoid your sounds from clipping.

[macc]

If you just want to make your stuff sound louder add a maximiser to your main track

Yes.

also a compressor works fine because it will silence the loudest parts to avoid your sounds from clipping.

Errr, doowot?

[Sharmaji]

And it rivals Nuendo, no? One (if not only difference) is that Nuendo is used for vids as well, no?

And I'd like to hear how/why it became/is the industry standard, as opposed to Logic for example.

It became the industry standard because they were one of the first companies with a viable digital system, thanks to their external processing system. Pro-Tools has exsisted in some form since the late 80s I believe. The rest since the mid 90s. Its what a lot of engineers learned on when they went digital, so its what theyre comfortable with. For recording audio and more band type mixdowns, it really cant be beat, especially when its built into an SSL console, or synced to a Neve. For electronic music production, its a bit clunky, cause it was never intended to be used that way really. I did hear that the newest version (cant remember if its out yet or not) focuses more on the electronic music/midi side of things and has overcome alot of the problems people used to complain about with it.

As for the OP's question... I would master if you were gonna play your stuff out on a big system regularly. If its just for your personal use and you think the mixdown is decent, and sounds good compared to released tunes I wouldnt bother until its time to sell it.

Yeh man. i was mixing down a 32 track band recording (yes 32!) last night from 9pm till 5am. Its a protools HD rig with a comprehensive 24 ins/outs. Its ideal when working with hardware, for example a nice class A compressor on the vocals, then re-record it back into protools. Its the standard for recorded sounds, although i wouldn't like to sequence on it. I will leave logic for that!
But yeah in short, its not really an electronic musicians friend, used more for live recording and post production.

32????? How come?

Lots of instruments and vocal harmonization

so i'm in the minority thinking that 32 is a nice small #, then?



seriously though, once get into a 5 piece drum kit w/ close mics, snare top/bottom, OH's, room, printed compressed room, sample-replaced kick and snare, od'd guitars, bass DI and amp, keys, sequences, comp'd lead vocals and stacked backing vocals...

32 is a nice, manageable #.

[jittery]

you all keep saying that no compression is needed if you're going to get your track mastered by a pro, but are you only talking about compression on the master channel, or just compression in general?

[macc]

you all keep saying that no compression is needed if you're going to get your track mastered by a pro, but are you only talking about compression on the master channel, or just compression in general?

Do whatever you need to do IN the mix to make the song sound how you want it to sound, so that it expresses your musical idea perfectly.

Don't do anything TO the mix (ie master bus) unless it is specifically in line with the above, and not done to make it louder.

[dubsaw]

you all keep saying that no compression is needed if you're going to get your track mastered by a pro, but are you only talking about compression on the master channel, or just compression in general?

Do whatever you need to do IN the mix to make the song sound how you want it to sound, so that it expresses your musical idea perfectly.

Don't do anything TO the mix (ie master bus) unless it is specifically in line with the above, and not done to make it louder.

Hey Mac


With what you have said in mind, how about bus/group tracks?

EX.

You have a Parallel Limiter Drum Bus?

Would you leave that there on the pre master, as it is within the mix?

Or would you turn all these buses off?

[Sharmaji]

^

bus/group treatments are an integral part of the sound of a mix. they're also a great way to deal w/ macro-level balances in the mix-- ALL the synths vs. ALL the drums vs. ALL the percussion, etc. do 'em!

[dubsaw]

^

bus/group treatments are an integral part of the sound of a mix. they're also a great way to deal w/ macro-level balances in the mix-- ALL the synths vs. ALL the drums vs. ALL the percussion, etc. do 'em!

Yeah mate i totally agree.

I normally have

Drum Bus
Bass Bus
FX Bus

Was just wondering if i should take them off for mastering, but i guess like you say they are integral to the mix. So as i wa sthinking, leave them in.

Cheers for confirmation