PC DAW buyers are f*cked right now.

alphacat · Post by **alphacat** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:36 pm

First ting: if you're looking to start an OS flame-o-rama, please go to one of the other 849 threads that already have this going on. Yes, your box is sexy. This thread is for folks who have pondered buying a new, off-the-shelf, non-specialist built, non-Mac PC (in my case a laptop) to use as a dedicated music making machine.

OK, so I've literally held off buying a new PC of my own for - well, far too long. It'd be embarassing to admit, actually. I've been using hand-me-downs from work (I'm lucky enough to be an IT guy) but they're hardly up to the task, being as they're multi-use home/work PC's and not hot-rodded by any standard. Additionally, I got beef with XP and especially Vista and will be running, at worst, XP lite, at best maybe Ubuntu or another Linux distro depending on my DAW software options...

So the real point of this post is that after some research, I found another recent post on another production board of a guy who really did his research and discovered that:

It's a pretty shitty time to try'n buy a PC DAW right now. Why?

Since this thread started, I've done a bunch more research and STILL HAVEN'T bought a thing. But I have finally learned in detail why this cluster#@ is happening. Basically, this is a terrible time for anyone to buy a laptop for professional audio. Here's why...

This is the "last gasp" moment for all the current external interface technologies - Firewire (any pin size), USB (2.0), even Expresscard (which pretty much replaced PCMCIA) and eSata. The writing is on the wall everywhere. Macs have all but discontinued Firewire. Many PCs now don't sport Firewire ports at all. Meanwhile, USB is too slow for top-end audio/video applications (despite RME's valiant attempts, I doubt we'll see 24 channels in/out in a USB device; their new USB Fireface is a temporary step, nothing more). And Apple refuses to include eSATA ports on their products - effectively preventing users from gettting true high speed "pro audio approved" throughput from external drives.

Why is this all happening at once? It's the perfect storm of port obsolescence. Everyone is quietly waiting for USB 3.0, which was announced 6 months ago and is a huge, exponential improvement over the current USB 2.0, Firewire, and really any of the above mention interface technologies. It's ten times faster (!) than the current USB spec; several times faster than Firewire; is powered (unlike eSATA); and can daisy chain up to 6 devices (two more than the current USB). In many ways, it's very much like a USB version of a PCI Express card.

USB 3.0 (perhaps to be marketed as "USB SuperSpeed", or maybe "USB Extreme") is "estimated" to start arriving on computers in late 2009/early 2010. Yes, Apple will adopt it. Meanwhile, a new version of the now ubiquitous Expresscard port (dubbed 2.0) has been announced too - it will also be able to operate at USB 3.0 speeds. I believe it will appear around the same time as USB 3.0.

The upshot? Eventually, we pro audio folks will be carrying around nifty USB 3.0 equipped lappies that can easily plug into whatever powerful new USB 3.0 products RME, MOTU, Avid, Echo, etc. are undoubtedly developing for 2010 and beyond. And we will be able to daisy chain (via USB 3.0) into external data drives for maximum throughput as well. It'll be bliss, and this whole firewire debacle will be forgotten.

At least, that's the plan. Expect a year or so of driver updates before the dust (and latency bugs) settles. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

Like I said, it's a terrible time to buy a laptop. For me, I think I'm going to start looking into rackmount for my desktop PC...

from:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... &&start=30

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice? = All welcome!

Flamers? See 'First ting' above...

cartoon_head · Post by **cartoon_head** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:46 pm

Just the one thought. Ive just bought a very expensive (for me atleast) firewire interface

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:48 pm

no big deal-- it's the same as anything else. mac's switch to intel provided amazingly powerful machines... and none of the drivers were ready until a few weeks after. shit happens!

contakt321 · Post by **contakt321** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:51 pm

I look forward to USB 3.0 b/c I dislike Firewire.

The Firewire chipsets in some MacBooks are flakey (like mine) and currently don't work w/ FW drives.

It is going to be an awkward transition though, I agree.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:31 pm

my desktop crashed so i bought a laptop which had.....vista

my audio interface was then put out of use because tascam has no idea how to keep long term buyers.

luckily my sampler doubles as a in/out soundcard

dont want to fuck with that partition shit either to try and get xp...seems like too much of a risk to fuck my laptop up too

symbl · Post by **symbl** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:43 pm

Bullshit. Get Reaper. Problem fixed.

/thread

alphacat · Post by **alphacat** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:45 pm

Yeah, and holding out for full 64 bit implementation across the board is also a subject of debate.

In the end I'll probably still buy a new machine anyway, but whether or not I go all-out on it is another story. If money were no option, hey, no problem right? I also suspect a transition is in the works for me as far as which software I go with too, but that's another thread... (question: Reaper's highest quantize rate is 1/32nd, no?)

All I really want is a portable, dedicated music workstation that won't make me poor for months. Used to use a Yamaha QY-20 (anyone else ever use one o' those?) to do quick sketches of ideas for beats and melodies; they don't really make stuff like that these days, save Zoom's little portable recorder with a built-in sequencer & synthesis. Apparently everybody who wanted to make tunes on the go bought a laptop. That's all I want anyway.

3za · Post by **3za** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:46 pm

Kojak_Dubs · Post by **Kojak_Dubs** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:47 pm

I tried the demo of reaper

I prefer the cubase platform

as well as XP service pack 3

if I could afford mac, I would

but my shit is stable on XP so until they REALLY fix all the bullshit that is wrong with vista or win7...

I am all good

street_legal · Post by **street_legal** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:12 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:my desktop crashed so i bought a laptop which had.....vista

my audio interface was then put out of use because tascam has no idea how to keep long term buyers.

luckily my sampler doubles as a in/out soundcard

dont want to fuck with that partition shit either to try and get xp...seems like too much of a risk to fuck my laptop up too

a dual boot partition is simple enough to setup and the risks arent really that big unless you accidentally wipe your hard drive. you should google how to do it if your having trouble with vista

step correct · Post by **step correct** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:24 pm

Get a laptop, keep it in good condition and sell it when the new ones come out.

knobgoblin · Post by **knobgoblin** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:43 am

an interesting bit about apple ditching firewire is that they are working on a new standard for audio/video with a bunch of other major players that uses cat5/ethernet. I bet thats where they throw their full support in the next generation of port technology, but will obviously support usb 3 as well.

check it out:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2009/01/ ... -of-audio/

dequo · Post by **dequo** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:05 am

what a whiner

you have until 2011 at least for USB3 equipment to be reasonable price and have all its issues sorted out

theres nothing wrong with firewire either it will always work, pc mobos still come with it, in the future you will buy a USB3 firewire hub with 10 connections that will work full speed simultaneously

drokkr · Post by **drokkr** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:40 am

wow, technology evolving.
now, who would have thought of that... probably the powers that be within certain companies deciding well in advance that a part would become obsolete prior to the release of the next part which in turn backs the consumer into a corner.

the bastards, making want/need their products.

alphacat · Post by **alphacat** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:00 am

Whiner? Me? Wino, maybe... But I'm not complaining about the technology's advancement, just the fact that it's about the worst time in PC history to buy a new machine for use as a DAW, comparatively speaking.

I mean - you're right - I can just settle for what's available now, IRQ issues w/ post-2000 WIN OS's notwithstanding, 32/64 bit support issues notwithstanding. Step Correct has the most realistic strategy in this regard: short term...

The point is, though, if you're someone who's saved up a little while for a nutty-fast brand new music PC - now's not the time to buy one really. Which sucks cuz buying a used T500 or DV9000 and waiting, well, it's just not as fun. But hey, if USB 3 makes for fewer hardware latency issues, great. Just let me know when it's ready.

dequo · Post by **dequo** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:27 am

nah not you whoever wrote that hah. i get annoyed when people complain about technology becoming obsolete but i guess he was just making a point anyway. sorry everyone please accept this apology

paradigm_x · Post by **paradigm_x** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:36 am

IMO;

If you buy something good now, it will work for around 4-5 years, by which time itll all be sorted. Or youll have the same issues with usb4 or whatever.

On the other had, all the issues with USB/FIRewire etc have been ironed out, and with this coming, itll be cheap.

Glass half full/empty.

PC DAW buyers are f*cked right now.

PC DAW buyers are f*cked right now.

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