Combat Sports...

[faust.dtc]

As far as i'm aware, Wing Chun is derived from the Snake and Crane forms of Shaolin. Am I wrong?

I asked my Sifu when I first started training if Wing Chun derived from an animal form. He explained that although it doesnt base itself on the styles directly it does incorporate the principles of both Snake and Crane.
That was great news to me as Ive always been interested in these forms but since then I havnt really seen much of Crane and Snake in what I am taught, apart from, perhaps, the principles of quick, snapping attacks (chain punching) and the Biu Tze form (thrusting/darting fingers).

I know the film you're talking about and it's going to torture me trying to remember which one it is, so thanks for that!

If you remember please let me know coz its bugging the hell out of me too.

Quin Na techniques are used to manipulate joints, blood/chi flow, nerves, tendons etc. It is accredited as being a forefather of Jujitsu.

I am very interested in finding out more about this now, especially since you mention it being related to Jujitsu.
Ive actually just learnt that Jujitsu is accredited to Chinese origins although i always thought it was a Japanese art. If I was to learn another Japanese style is would have to be Aikido though.

You say you couldn't clear your mind when practicing Tai Chi, does this apparent lack of focus affect your martial arts/are you always thinking rather than reacting?

I was a teenager when i first learn some very basic principles of tai chi and at the time i was boxing so i guess I just had trouble taking the concepts seriously and switching my ever active mind off.
Im a lot more relaxed and open minded now so it doesnt really interfere with my training today. Despite this though i only really try to focus on whether I am still following the correct principles (we all get a bit lazy sometimes dont we), i try not to focus on the attacks given my way and try to allow a natural instinctive reaction to take over. This has lead to many bruises but strangely i tend to get hit more when im thinking too hard lol
In some classes, after warm ups and forms are completed, we can just spend 2 hours a lesson practasing Chi Sao, which im sure you may know as 'Sticky Hands'. It is great for close combat and allows us to develop sensitivity it our arms which should allow us to feel the movements of our opponents and pre-empt an atttack. Although this can be boring and tiring I have found that it is a very effective concept that allows you to replace thinking with reaction.

Just to add, one thing I really hate about Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, Ving Chun etc is the beef between all schools and off shoots of the same style. Rather than trying to argue WCs effectiveness against other martial arts they all just seem to argue between themselves.
I also hate the fact that it seems very corporate and money orientated. I belong to a good school but sometimes it feels more Kobra Kai than Miyagi lol

Have you ever experienced this in what you do?

[yooamatwa]

I find the bickering between styles quite annoying.

It seems it has always been present, I guess what it comes down to is money and time. Teachers want to be seen to have the best style so they can gain more students and students don't want find they have wasted there time on a perceived weaker style.

Ultimately in my experience as long as you have a good teacher and train diligently your going to become a proficient fighter/practitioner regardless of style or system.

A friend of mine used to refer to his style as the perfect Pyramid scheme, once you are a black belt you are required to hit the town and 'recruit' people. While the owner of the school services his fetish for helicopters...

I don't have a problem with the money side, my school isn't that cheap but I'm willing to pay, I probably would pay more if i had to. Its worth it for a good teacher who turns out proficient students..

[cityzen]

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[faust.dtc]

You like the look of Aikido ay? Are you a big Seagal fan? Again I always liked Aikido because it's a non aggressive form of self defence. The amount of pain your attacker receives seems to be directly related to their own aggression.

Yeah I must admit im a bit of a fan of Seagal. He just makes the art look so effortless. I love any martial that uses the manipulation of joints and the opponents force against themselves. I doubt I would ever train in Aikido though but I do admire it a lot.

My Sifu never argues which martial art is best.

There are a lot of rivalries in Wing Chun and I think this is because Yip Man (the first person to teach WC openly) taught different methods and styles to each of his students based on there strengths and weaknesses so through the lineage there are subtle changes and differences. This ofen brings up heated 'debates' about whos style of WC is greater. Its pathetic.

My Sifu chooses not to get too involved in the politics much himself but he used to have a school under one 'brand' owned by a certain Grand Master but this was becoming too money orientated and was asking for certain demands to be met so he broke away and signed under a new brand created by another Grand Master.
With this change of brand came some differnet styles of teachings too which i found silly as my Sifu had probably never learnt these differences as he was taught under the lineage of the previous grand master.
Its all confusing stuff but since this change some of the schools that disbanded with us have now gone there own way. Seems this in-fighting and rivalry will never end...

[cityzen]

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[faust.dtc]

I wanted to ask, as WC doesn't have that many kicks, what sort of emphasis does your Sifu place on flexibility?
And are you recommended any sort of weight training or is it frowned upon because it slows down the speed of punches?

Weight training isnt frowned upon as such but isnt recommended as it is said to possibly hinder fluidity and flexibility. We practice chain punches so the power in our extensions come from our triceps, so depend more on being supple and flexible.

We also dont promote weight training as it is believed a flexible body can absorb and give back a force more effectively and that the tension in tensed muscles can indicate to your opponent where you intend to go and that it also allows your opponent to manipulate your ridgid body to where they want you to go.

Having said that my Sifu did train as a weight lifter before training in Wing Chun and we do have weight lifters in our school who are very proficient in what they do. It seems however that many of the great grand masters are skinny guys who you wouldnt consider very powerful if you didnt know what they were capable of.

Although our kicks are aimed towards the waist downwards footwork is considered one of the most important aspects so we prefer to develop the strength in our abdominals, sartorius muscle and gluteus maximus to keep our core firm and stance rooted. Anything else is secondary...

[fuagofire]

Did judo when i was a kid for years, did eagle claw kung fu for a year in my late teens but i lived in the middle of nowhere at the time so i stopped due to travel problems.
wish id stuck with it, its amazing how quickly your body responds to stance training etc. id love to start up again but the sifu seems to have quit teaching.
his name was kevin cox, very short guy, liked a drink, didn't show off.

love to do wing chun tho, i heard its rather good for the brain as well as other benefits.

[pets bud]

I did Wing Chung for a year but got discouraged cause my school was all about money. I miss sticky hands. I would like to learn taekwondo. Kicking someones brain out their nose seems fun.

[slothrop]

Bit of a bump.

I've done a few things, although never got really good at any of them since I've been moving around and never really been in the right place with the right school for long enough. The main things I've done were yang tai chi and shodokan aikido, plus a bit of muay thai and some odds and sods of wushu type stuff.

Shodokan aikido is cool - it's utterly unpractical in the sense that you spend very little time talking about 'real attacks' and don't really spar against people who are trying to punch and kick you, but it's very 'honest' in that you do train competitively with people who are trying their damndest not to get thrown, so if someone tells you that in principle this technique can take someone's balance and throw them sideways then you can test for yourself whether or not it does. I guess I saw the training we were doing (ie before dan grade) as being more science than engineering if you see what I mean.

In general, I'm not good enough to say much, but one piece of advice that I'll stand by is that you should be as clear and honest as possible about a) what you want to get out of a martial art and b) whether the training you're doing is helping you to get it.

Eg a lot of people do wushu thinking it'll make them ub3r d34dly streetfighters, which is plainly bullshit. OTOH, I know people who are entirely aware that having a perfect butterfly kick or being able to do a no hands cartwheel while swinging a sword is in no sense a practical skill, but do wushu because they enjoy it and like being able to do cool stuff.

Similarly, imo worrying about whether you know enough to fight other martial artists - eg whether you need to know grappling so you can fight on the ground - is kind of pointless unless you frequently get jumped by ninjas, or you're actually planning on doing MMA (in which case you should stop theorizing and actually try it). Otherwise, worrying about whether your boxing techniques could stand up to someone's judo is like worrying about whether a rugby team could beat a basketball team.

[cityzen]

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[fuagofire]

Similarly, imo worrying about whether you know enough to fight other martial artists - eg whether you need to know grappling so you can fight on the ground - is kind of pointless unless you frequently get jumped by ninjas, or you're actually planning on doing MMA (in which case you should stop theorizing and actually try it). Otherwise, worrying about whether your boxing techniques could stand up to someone's judo is like worrying about whether a rugby team could beat a basketball team.

i was jumped by ninjas the other week

[faust.dtc]

Similarly, imo worrying about whether you know enough to fight other martial artists - eg whether you need to know grappling so you can fight on the ground - is kind of pointless

I wouldnt say it was pointless. I want to learn aspects of another martial art to fill in gaps where my martial art does not (ground fighting) and become a more rounded practitioner. It doesnt matter how good you are, if you have an Achilles Heel you are potentially vulnerable.

[slothrop]

Similarly, imo worrying about whether you know enough to fight other martial artists - eg whether you need to know grappling so you can fight on the ground - is kind of pointless

I wouldnt say it was pointless. I want to learn aspects of another martial art to fill in gaps where my martial art does not (ground fighting) and become a more rounded practitioner. It doesnt matter how good you are, if you have an Achilles Heel you are potentially vulnerable.

Vulnerable to what, though?

I'm all for learning new stuff that I don't know about because it's interesting or fun and expands your mind and casts new light on the stuff you already know or whatever and if you want to take part in MMA competitions then you definitely want to learn some groundfighting, but I don't really get the idea that it's important to be good at fighting for it's own sake just in case, I don't know, you get attacked by a futuristic biker gang in a post-apocalyptic wasteland and have only your fighting skills to rely on to protect your family. You know, like happens all the time...

[faust.dtc]

Similarly, imo worrying about whether you know enough to fight other martial artists - eg whether you need to know grappling so you can fight on the ground - is kind of pointless

I wouldnt say it was pointless. I want to learn aspects of another martial art to fill in gaps where my martial art does not (ground fighting) and become a more rounded practitioner. It doesnt matter how good you are, if you have an Achilles Heel you are potentially vulnerable.

Vulnerable to what, though?

I'm all for learning new stuff that I don't know about because it's interesting or fun and expands your mind and casts new light on the stuff you already know or whatever and if you want to take part in MMA competitions then you definitely want to learn some groundfighting, but I don't really get the idea that it's important to be good at fighting for it's own sake just in case, I don't know, you get attacked by a futuristic biker gang in a post-apocalyptic wasteland and have only your fighting skills to rely on to protect your family. You know, like happens all the time...

You know what, in that sense I really cant argue with you there...learning another martial art aswell is pretty pointless unless I intend to go out and use it, which I dont.

I do wonder sometimes why i spend my time and money doing Wing Chun, i should be learning to drive rather than learning how to punch someones head in but I suppose its just an interest really. Some men like to know how cars work and i like to know how the body reacts and works. Its a bit of exercise coz otherwise id just be spending my money on skunk, which may I add might be slightly to blame for my lack of enthusiasm right now.

[slothrop]

Yeah, knowing how the body reacts and works is a lot of what makes it interesting, I think. It's like learning anatomy and mechanics but in an intuitive and non-verbal way.

Plus it's a really good mental and physical discipline (says the tubby bloke) and sparring is a massive buzz. And it's putting myself in a situation that's totally unlike the rest of my life which I find is often good for my head.

[5415]

Bumping this thread. Anyone know any decent southern style schools in london?

[particle-jim]

Nope but I do know that there are plenty of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu academies about... Probably ought to join one, have done any BJJ in about a year or so

[5415]

No worries. I think Cityzen would have been the one in the know.

[particle-jim]

No worries. I think Cityzen would have been the one in the know.

Cityzen doesn't really post round here anymore

[Gewze]

Studied Taekwondo for a couple of years when i was younger, Managed to get a few grades from black then got bored. Looking to start Muay Thai When/If i ever get a job