Wus the difference between Grime and Dubstep?

[thrush]

sorry mate, mistype, i meant to write about enjoying music, because isn't that why we all listen to it? to enjoy ourselves? african's can listen to whatever they want, asian's can listen to whatever they want, caucasian's can listen to whatever they want, as long as we're all enjoying ourselves as a community.

a personal gripe i have about the american hip hop scene is the amount of beef in the industry. not only does it put a negative image on the music, but its just bringing negative vibes down onto the target and nobody needs that man. live life and enjoy it, and let others live their life in their way

[abs]

Grime was a lot more electronic than dubstep, and much more.. raw if you get what I mean. Dubstep has a much higher production value, and obviously a lot more going on usually, as there isn't an mc to fill in the space, not that it needs to be filled, it's just the way it is.

But nowadays both genres are all over the place so you can't really start telling people what they sound like, because it's all so varied.

[legend4ry]

Grime is built for a MC "mainly" - Dubstep isn't generally, its really as simple as that.. you can just tell whats grime and whats dubstep - unless you've never been exposed to one or the other - then you need some education because they both came from UKG but branched out differently,

Grime came about for the garage heads who liked the MC stuff or MC'd themselfs as UKG was dying they started to make a sound purely just for a MC to spit on and progressed to what it is today and dubstep came from the darker more instrumental side of garage which was a lot smaller of a scene - hence the sound is only really just finding its feet as a "real" genre instead of a offspring from garage within the last.. 2-3 years.

Thats my theory anyways - feel free to argue

[POND LIFE]

i stopped reading this thread halfway through due to the sheer volume of fail.

grime = uk rap = uk hip hop? what the fuck?

and dubstep producers are dominated by the white middle class? i doubt that, looking at the original waves of producers, rather than the ones that got into it through spending all day sitting on their computers and thinking 'hmm im bored of call of duty, why dont i try making music', who are obviously going to be mainly middle class. myself included obviously, other than my not being white.

[POND LIFE]

@ phaseten
there is no relationship between music and colour bro, causal or correlative.

Disagree w/ this. Not that we need any more shit stirring in this thread , but music played, written, invented, recorded, produced, etc, by people of african descent is better. To me at least. Absolutely no agenda in this belief, just personal observation.

im kind of inclined to semi go with this opinion, not that i think that music made by black people is necessarily BETTER (that being a subjective thing), but blacks had such a huge influence on the development of 20th century music that sometimes it seems theyre therefore going to be the ones turning out the goodies more often than not.

that and as a blick i feel as if im naturally inclined towards certain feels of music - like i cant stand most rock music because to me it feels like bang bang bang bang and theres no funky element. i need some swing or some funk. i feel like thats a thing naturally ingrained in black peoples minds.

could be completely wrong and offending everyone though.

[addicted]

skream made midnight request line as a grime tune. say no more.

if you listen back to old grime sets the focus was alot more on the beats and there was a lot more dirty bass involved which i think influenced early dubstep step makers to carry the sound from dark garage to what we have now. too many people on this forum dont know the exact roots of grime as the sound adopted now by much of the grime scene is distant from its roots and closer to hiphop. If you know real grime you will know the extent to which dubstep takes influence from grime.... ill leave you with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC6rXzp9X8w

most grime guys who have heard this call it grime

[mico viejo]

phaseten, yr handshake of peace is appreciated and reciprocated.

dubstep producers are dominated by the white middle class? i doubt that, looking at the original waves of producers

the key bit of this phrase is "original wave of producers", who i'm fully aware were not predominantly (or even slightly?) white middle class. but this is what I'm saying: historically the ppl who originate tend not 2b white middle class, and anyway I'd argue that the original wave of producers were not making dubstep, but just making music. the name is something thats come later...along with a big wave of white middle class producers who (and this is the entire point of what i was trying to say at the begininning) SOMETIMES DISREGARD OR EVEN NEGATE the influence grime has had on this genre because they themselves were never feelin grime. yet much of what has come to more recent producers as a readymade "package" (now called dubstep) was invented by ppl who were influenced by grime. not sure if that makes sense?

just cos u dis on grime doesnt mean u aint running a style that owes a debt to grime.

while i cant comment on the socio-economic status of most dubstep producers, i have a lot of trouble thinking of more than a handful of black and asian producers, yet the opposite is true in grime. am I wrong? dont bother listing the 5 ppl u can think of, but if ive very seriously misunderstood shit then tell me.

so far joker has been mentioned, tho I not sure if this was intended to argue against or for my point, as A> just cos joker (and a few other producers) r black doesnt in anyway make what i'm saying untrue when the majority clearly are white and middle class, and B> joker is one of the sickest, most original producers in dubstep but his sound is very grime, and gullybrook lane was a MASSIVE tune in the grime scene...so, er, that just supports what I'm saying from the beginning.

at no point was i suggesting theres anything wrong with being white. or anything wrong with being middle class. nor that u have 2b either of these things 2 produce dubstep (or, for that matter, that everyone who produced grime was one thing or another), or that all music made by whites and middle class is shit. instead, my argument in a nutshell is this: dubstep has been massively influenced by grime and just cos you dont like grime doesnt mean u aint riding off the back of it, so stop denying this.

its neither interesting, or partìcularly important, so i aint suggesting we do a "hands up who's white and posh" thing, but i bet u anything that (on here at least) its a clear, clear majority. and maybe producers a little less (and i reckon the divide goes somethign like this... 1st wave originators: not posh, 2nd wave silly haircuts and chinstrokers: bamber gascoigne).

my final argument, that this place is full of geeks, is admittedly my personal view...as one man's geek is another's badman.

also, dirt1989, bare in mind that plenty of rock music has been made by blacks over the years, and some of it is very good. I wasnt suggesting that dubstep is only for white ppl, but u shouldnt suggest (if thats what u were doing) that rock is only for whites either, this only undervalues the contributions of non-whites to the genre. and if anyone sees this last phrase as a cue to jump in accusing me of doing just that about dubstep, please read back my very first post and notice there are one or 2 clauses in there that acknowledge that i was making a generalisation and that there have been many contributions from other parties.

dubstep has a debt to grime. dont deny it. that is all.

[legend4ry]

dubstep has a debt to grime. dont deny it. that is all.

What you said above has a lot of truth - the old sidewinder tapes are the true fact on the beat aspect - all those tunes had the filthiest, lowest basslines I ever heard to that point..

Theres a documentary what was made around 2002-2004 about Wileys sound and garage which was around the time people were trying to call this new bass heavy music something..

and every person who spoke on the doc said words like sublow, eski beats, darkstep, dubstep, nu-garage and of course grime to describe this new sound coming out.. so there was confusion on what to tag the genre from then and the genres sometimes come so close together its like "is it grime, is it dubstep"

its just 140bpm UK bass music in my mind! Its all sick beats what represent what London is to me.. None of the middle class shit, theres no social classes in music, nor race!

Family vibes in dubstep, whatever happened to those? is the question I often ask myself..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bMQTU2iI1E

[.onelove.]

There's black people and guns in the UK?

lolololol americans and dubstep/dnb wtf??? rofl lolodflhofghkl ofkhldf gh

Idiot. It amazes me how clueless some Americans are about the rest of the world, I remember a comment from some yank girl who, after finding out Stringer Bell from the Wire was English, said 'OMG I THOUGHT HE WAS STRAIGHT BLACK'. Because obviously there are only black people in America, dear. /facepalm

Grime was decent in 2002-05, now the qualitys absolutely abysmal.

[DZA]

Grime was decent in 2001-06,

[mico viejo]

There's black people and guns in the UK?

lolololol americans and dubstep/dnb wtf??? rofl lolodflhofghkl ofkhldf gh

Idiot. It amazes me how clueless some Americans are about the rest of the world

i think that was a joke, tho one acknowledging that many americans are ignorant of the fact britain doesnt look like an episode of miss marple.

[setspeed]

wibble

[.onelove.]

There's black people and guns in the UK?

lolololol americans and dubstep/dnb wtf??? rofl lolodflhofghkl ofkhldf gh

Idiot. It amazes me how clueless some Americans are about the rest of the world

i think that was a joke, tho one acknowledging that many americans are ignorant of the fact britain doesnt look like an episode of miss marple.

I dno, he sort of went down the whole 'OMG YOU UK GUISE COULDNT LAST A DAY IN OUR GHETTOS MAYN' cliche bollocks.

[mico viejo]

There's black people and guns in the UK?

lolololol americans and dubstep/dnb wtf??? rofl lolodflhofghkl ofkhldf gh

Idiot. It amazes me how clueless some Americans are about the rest of the world

i think that was a joke, tho one acknowledging that many americans are ignorant of the fact britain doesnt look like an episode of miss marple.

I dno, he sort of went down the whole 'OMG YOU UK GUISE COULDNT LAST A DAY IN OUR GHETTOS MAYN' cliche bollocks.

true, i dont think that bit was joke

[hurlingdervish]

GENRES SUCK

genres are killing creativity

remember that whoever started grime and whoever started dubstep were just people doing their thing.

[Genevieve]

I wouldn't say grime's a UK hip-hop thing as much as a genre that made all the awful mistakes hip-hop made by becoming MC-centric. =0

Have only heard vocal grime, though. Haven't like any of it so far.

[deadly_habit]

i like some grime some of it is so over the top wannabe thuggish it's ridiculous though, just like us gangsta rap