why do vinyl copies of albums have less tracks than the CD?

[titchyschneider]

bought the boxcutter album at last but found out it has FOUR less tracks than the cd. same thing with the vexd album. same thing with the burial album, which they didnt even release in full on vinyl and then theres the skream album which has a lot of different tracks on the CD compared to the vinyl edition. i thought dance music and dubstep-related people were meant to be pro-vinyl... this seems a bit off to me. i want all the tracks - i shouldnt have to buy the CD to have them. you cant keep peoples interest in vinyl if they know they wont have the full album when they buy LPs.

[tronman]

i really want kode9's album to come out on vinyl as instrumental.

[titchyschneider]

yeah, hyperdub should definitely do that

[fushimi]

The physical limitations of the vinyl format.

[thinking]

is this a trick question??

It costs money to release vinyl, lots of money, and you can physically only fit a certain amount of music onto one side of a 12" - 2 short tracks is the max and even that's not perfect for playing out in a club.

Therefore, to avoid making the cost of manufacturing an album far too high (and thereby passing the cost on to your record-buying fans), you have to limit yourself to how many plates your album will be pressed onto. Simple economics.

[titchyschneider]

ummmm, if the boxcutter album is already on DOUBLE vinyl, then how does it push the limitations of vinyl or cost more to put a measly four extra tracks on? thats two tracks per vinyl record, its hardly going to ruin the pressing/loudness/quality. it can still fit.

[elgato]

also, the missing tracks on vex'd and boxcutter were released on 12" previous to the album

[elgato]

ummmm, if the boxcutter album is already on DOUBLE vinyl, then how does it push the limitations of vinyl or cost more to put a measly four extra tracks on? thats two tracks per vinyl record, its hardly going to ruin the pressing/loudness/quality. it can still fit.

surely you're being far too aggressive

personal perspective...

i personally would be brewing if albums start getting pressed three tracks per side, i'd probably start buying cd albums, cos for low end, 3 tracks per side does not generally cut it. equally, if i'd just bought the EP, i'd be brewing to have to buy the tracks again, which either bumped up the price of the album, or reduced the quality of pressing of the other tracks

[dreadnought]

stop winging.... just save up for cd decks!!!!

but the saving is the hard part

[titchyschneider]

apologies if you thought i was being aggressive. thats fair enough though, if the tracks were already out on 12 before, but it still costs more to get the album and the 12 than just buying one CD. and if the album 'statement' is the one that includes the tracks released earlier on 12, than it would be cool to have that on vinyl too. (although saying that, i didnt see the point of having request line on the skream album as its so old now).

im not an expert in pressing matters, but im not sure if 3 tracks as opposed to 2 would really affect the low end that much, i used to buy tons of american 12s with 3 tracks on each side and i dont think the bass was compromised.

[thinking]

apologies if you thought i was being aggressive. thats fair enough though, if the tracks were already out on 12 before, but it still costs more to get the album and the 12 than just buying one CD. and if the album 'statement' is the one that includes the tracks released earlier on 12, than it would be cool to have that on vinyl too. (although saying that, i didnt see the point of having request line on the skream album as its so old now).

im not an expert in pressing matters, but im not sure if 3 tracks as opposed to 2 would really affect the low end that much, i used to buy tons of american 12s with 3 tracks on each side and i dont think the bass was compromised.

it would, specifically if you intended to play any of the tracks out. In all honesty, even two tracks per side is pushing a little bit.

Really it comes down to whether you're a DJ or not - I'd much rather less tunes on more vinyl - ideally for me an LP should have one track per side.

Unfortunately this is bloody expensive nowadays, and not that many people want to take this kind of risk. If you want all the tracks on teh CD, why not buy it on CD? It doesn't seem as if loudness of the cut is that important to you...

[elgato]

thats cool man sorry i misunderstood the tone

i do agree to some extent, but you have to give the labels some slack, they must make decisions for a reason. not sure about the skream tracklisting, seems a bit weak to have tracks exclusive to the cd album, but i dunno what the thought is behind it. also i can see its frustrating if you dont have the previous 12s

i have definately found that vinyls with two or three tracks per side will get punished by a full side at 45rpm, especially with something like dubstep where depth of sound is so important. i am speaking purely from a djing perspective, cos without the contrast it doesnt really matter. i just hate knowing that when you drop a mix, no matter how hard you hit the gains, its not gonna pack the punch you want it to

i personally would like to see labels doing limited presses of LPs on like 4LP or whatever to give the buyer the option... i'd pay £20 for vex'd, distance, pinch's LPs on one track per side, no question about it

[we eat our young]

As a serious vinyl fiend it always upsets me that cd releases sometimes have more tracks than the lp pressing, even though i understand the reasons why- due to loudness of the pressing.

I will say however that perhaps labels need to look at how they can make the vinyl package more attractive as a purchase than the cd. We get less songs and pay more on vinyl???? Maybe some labels could look at doing some sort of exclusive pressings of missed tracks or something specifically for the vinyl heads....

That is if labels still want to release stuff on vinyl due to pressing and distrubution costs being so much higher. If that case, which i feel it is, then big up to all the labels who still press releases on vinyl even though financially it isn't the easiest way of going about things.

[metalboxproducts]

apologies if you thought i was being aggressive. thats fair enough though, if the tracks were already out on 12 before, but it still costs more to get the album and the 12 than just buying one CD. and if the album 'statement' is the one that includes the tracks released earlier on 12, than it would be cool to have that on vinyl too. (although saying that, i didnt see the point of having request line on the skream album as its so old now).

im not an expert in pressing matters, but im not sure if 3 tracks as opposed to 2 would really affect the low end that much, i used to buy tons of american 12s with 3 tracks on each side and i dont think the bass was compromised.

Volume is affected the more tracks you have on plastic. It's just a fact. Phisical limitations and all that. I'd link you to an appropriate source, but i just can't be arsed...

[masstronaut]

Anyone remember that Shellac album coming with a free (unannounced) CD of the same album? I think the point being made there was that Steve Albini thinks CDs are pants, but it wouldn't hurt labels to do this would it? Unless the point is just to scalp music fans. Or they could offer free downloads of the missing tracks.

[titchyschneider]

no no, i remember buying 60 minute albums on vinyl and being really fucked off that the levels were so low, and when you put them through the mixer, youd have to turn up the input to a ridiculous level compared to the 12" of a track from the album, but i didnt think the difference from having 2 tracks on one side to having 3 would be that major. ill google it though

[metalboxproducts]

Anyone remember that Shellac album coming with a free (unannounced) CD of the same album? I think the point being made there was that Steve Albini thinks CDs are pants, but it wouldn't hurt labels to do this would it? Unless the point is just to scalp music fans. Or they could offer free downloads of the missing tracks.

Any reference to Albini/Shellac really needs to be bigged up.

[seckle]

the wider the groove for the needle the better the sound response. deep grooves can be achieved on 12"s at 45rpm than 12"s at 33rpm. bigger spectrum, means better subbass. after that, it'spurley mathematics.

[docdoom]

buy the vinyl version for the mixing and download the CD version for the ipod, thats my policy. I don't think you can be faulted for downloading something if you have bought a copy of it, albeit in a different format.

[ufo over easy]

ummmm, if the boxcutter album is already on DOUBLE vinyl, then how does it push the limitations of vinyl or cost more to put a measly four extra tracks on? thats two tracks per vinyl record, its hardly going to ruin the pressing/loudness/quality. it can still fit.

You clearly know very little about the process, and sound in general.