kramer is way fucked up.

[relaks]

Shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjE0E5lgm9Q

[shonky]

Hmmnnn..heard about this today. Not a good look. Really disappointing, can't figure out what he was trying to acheive here, originally thought that it might be some Lenny Bruce testing the audience sort of thing, but couldn't see anything like that when watching the video.

[bagelator]

who is kramer and why did anyone give him a microphone

[seckle]

the guy is an idiot. couldn't have picked a better way to destroy his career.

[spaceboy]

I'm a Londoner who's been over in America for the last 2 months. And this black / white divide is a joke.

The shit that came from that boys mouth...

I dont think even the BNP/Combat18 would say that.

They're out trying to solve the world....bwoi there are some deep seated issues in their own country I tell ya....all under the surface....

[optimum]

Very sad, love seinfeld but this is out of order

[echo wanderer]

Yeah I saw it when TMZ.com put it up over the weekend.

What a shame that all he has to do is publicly apologise.Like that is going to change what he really feels inside.Did anyone see the fucked up apology?He went on and on about how he was "just stressed".Yeah,right.And he even got Seinfeld himself to go to bat for him on Letterman!

I don't have a problem with someone being racist,but I do have problems with someone being racist and keeping it inside to further thier career.Seck's right.He couldn't have found a better way.First Mel Gibson,now Michael Richards.What washed up celebrity is next?I am positive there are a lot more out there.

[bob grommit]

http://captainoftheussinevitable.ytmnsf ... 84f4a2052e

[bagelator]

http://captainoftheussinevitable.ytmnsf ... 84f4a2052e

[ramadanman]

this was just pathetic

his attempted self justification as well...he knows exactly what he's just said

tbh if you use that word, you've got issues. either it's in your vocabularly or it isn't. simple as.

[pangaea]

That apology was cringeworthy. He obviously didn't have a clue what he was going to say either. Apparantly he's hired a 'PR expert' to try and sort out his mess for him? Fucksake.

His career's finished. Hopefully.

[corpsey]

What's the context of this joke? Surely he hadn't just launched into a tirade arguing that black people should be hung upside down with a fork up their arse?

Like Shonky I think it might have been a lenny bruce/bill hicks sort of ''shake people out of their complascency/just offend them at all costs'' thing, but he reacted to the heckling in a hideously embarassing and unfunny way. It is difficult to know what the intention behind him using the word ''******'' in his routine and then as a response to being called a ''cracker ass motherfucker'' was- perhaps it was badly executed irony, perhaps it was genuine racism.

lol @ people consistently referring to him as ''Kramer'', although to be fair I don't know his actual name. I suppose that lends credence to him being called a wash up lol

[ufo over easy]

Wow. That was sad..

I don't have a problem with someone being racist

Why not?

[mos dan]

properly sad. i rate seinfeld as one of the best sitcoms ever, so multi-layered, so brilliantly plotted, so many great lines, so dark at times, and yet i don't know how i'm going to be able to enjoy watching it so much now.

it's especially weird because michael richards' rage often comes through when he's playing kramer in the show (he is a very intense, strange man, as anyone who's watched the extras on the seinfeld dvd packs will know).

[benjybars]

properly sad. i rate seinfeld as one of the best sitcoms ever, so multi-layered, so brilliantly plotted, so many great lines, so dark at times, and yet i don't know how i'm going to be able to enjoy watching it so much now.

yeah i agree.... i'm even having a bit a of trouble enjoying Curb your Enthusiasm so much... Fucking racists man, they always have to spoil everything.

[rickdias]

haha hes a stupid fool is all, i dout hes actually being racist (tho im racist againt seinfeld i hate that crap ass show) hes just a twat that thinks he's funny, but aint!

[echo wanderer]

Wow. That was sad..

I don't have a problem with someone being racist

Why not?

I think you took this out of context.What I said was:

I don't have a problem with someone being racist,but I do have problems with someone being racist and keeping it inside to further thier career.

By that,I mean,no one is going to change the ways a racist feels.People in this world have this audacious attitude that If they tell someone that something is right or wrong,whether on a moral,spiritual,or whatever level they deem fit,that doesn't mean everyone in the world is going to follow that.I am a person who commends honesty,and I can't stand racists who hold it inside in order to look good.

That is where I have the problem.

I grew up with racial slurs,WAAAAAAY before it became "popular" for white,asian and hispanic hip hop kids running around using the "N" word.I was/am offended when blacks use it,even if the changed spelling is "******".Growing up,I had heard "******" a lot more than I should have.And when it is followed by a flurry of neo-izan fists and steel-toes,or by almost every player on the high school footbal team,or by kids whose parents are in the Klan,you kind of find it disgusting.

Also I am mixed and really light,and I got shit from the blacks too for "not being black enough".Nobody seems to realise that ANYONE can be racist,no matter what color."Honky" and "cracker" offend me too.So does "chink","spic",and "paki".

But that was back when it was a bit more common to be racist.When you could just avoid those people,because they were blatantly proud of thier ideals.But then the PC era came in and it just wasn't cool to be racist anymore.Just like half the Rockabilly kids in SoCal were once izan punks(they don't deserve the name skinheads) who realised that in this day and age,it's just not cool to be "white pride".So they went all "American Pride",to cover up what they feel.They are still racist as fuck,they just don't admit to it.

A word is only hurtful if the connotations behind it are negative.Thus the popularity and acceptance of "******" in popular society.Michael Richards knew what he said and what context he was using it in..And he meant every word of it.There's no way he was just trying to get a rise out of people.I really don't think the concept of lynching and subsequently sodomising a person with a fork is considered humour,no matter what race is targeted.But for blacks,it's historically signifigant as it is,and therefore extremely offensive.

So,yes...I definitely have a problem with racism,but I am not going to change the way a racist thinks with that alone.That is a problem they can only deal with on thier own.But I'd rather someone be open about it,rather than them faking being nice or my friend.

[spaceboy]

it is what it is...you gotta remember and it is a fact that coloured people are racist as well. i'd argue that they are probably more so...i suppose in a way it is acceptable because of history...but you gotta set an example if you want to change the world...

reading about bobby kennedy...civil rights...60's/70's...watts...martin luther king etc...

v interesting...

how about institutional racism and glass ceilings... coz due to the colour of your skin you can only progress so far...

[echo wanderer]

it is what it is...you gotta remember and it is a fact that coloured people are racist as well. i'd argue that they are probably more so...i suppose in a way it is acceptable because of history...but you gotta set an example if you want to change the world...

reading about bobby kennedy...civil rights...60's/70's...watts...martin luther king etc...

v interesting...

how about institutional racism and glass ceilings... coz due to the colour of your skin you can only progress so far...

Well said.

Like I was saying,I would rather racist people just be up front about it,rather than bottle it up inside.If say,someone I work with doesn't like me for any reason,I could care less,just don't feign it with me,because eventually it's gonna get ugly when they just can't handle being around me anymore because I am not going to change for them.A perfect example of this is the similarities between Michael Richards' blowup on stage and the "Serenity Now!" episode of Seinfeld,in which Kramer freaks out after using the relaxation technique.At the end of the episode,it is said by a psycho killer,"Serenity now...insanity later!".Ironic mirroring,innit?

Now,I wouldn't say that racist people of colour are any more racist than white racists.There are many that are pissed off about history,but there are a lot of races(including whites) who abhor that same history.It's like the concept of "reverse racism".Only white people use that term.There is absolutely no such thing.If a black man is racist against whites,he is a racist - period!Then again,he might just be angry for another reason,like say his daughter was harassed by white kids at school.And the same could go for a white person.But no one should just call people out as racist based on unfounded opinions.It's like the S.H.A.R.P.s,they will beat up anyone they even remotely think are racist.And some of those people are ex-sizan who have supposedly "seen the light",but are most likely in it for the sheer violence.

But the SHARPs aren't really setting any examples.Here in the States,racism is still a big problem.Not that it doesn't happen in Europe or elsewhere,but we are relatively young compared to the rest of the world.It will take more time to shed the racial US connotations,ie:White America,Black America,Hispanic America,et al.We haven't learned to just call it America and accept the richness of our multi-racial and multi-cultural heritage.This is the most diverse country in the world,yet the term "United" doesn't seem to fit when I hear about an unarmed black man being shot 50+ times in New York by white police on the eve of his wedding.Or when black guys at a club beat up a white dude just because he is dating a black woman.Or when US-born hispanics run around talking about how Mexico is so much better than the US,though they are 5 generations deep here.Or the fact that the South still flies "Old Glory/The Stars and Bars".Or the mainstream ideal that hiphop was considered only a "gangster" thing until Limp Bizkit and Eminem came out and how then and only then,did hiphop become "socially acceptable".Or how huge portions of Asian communities in the US keep themselves seperated from the rest of the surrounding boroughs by purposely not learning the common language and only catering to thier own people(don't get me started on the segregation within thier own communities).And a lot of Jewish communities do that here too.

Doesn't sound very united to me.

When I lived in England,I saw National Front in bars and never got shit.Why?Because I knew where they stood and they knew where my friends and I stood.I've even been to punk shows here,where sizan didn't start trouble though we had "izan Punks Fuck Off" painted on our jackets,or if someone had an anti-swastika tattoo in plain view.As the old adage goes:"Don't want none...won't be none".

Even when I lived in SF,the word everyone threw around was "tolerance".I hate that term.Personally,I think that it's just a cop out.I would much rather be accepted for who I am than tolerated because of what I am.Now,I had never seen or met with any racism in SF,but that it not to say it doesn't exist.I am sure there are racist people who moved to SF for a Dot.com job,and kept it inside and practised tolerance for the sole purpose of the job.Kinda like Kramer apparently has.Sure...tolerance is a massive step in the right direction,but I think people should be accepted as unique,individual human beings.I know that represents everyone on this forum/board,but it doesn't mean the whole world is as accepting as we are.Luckily,we have music to erase these racial gaps!For other people,however,it may just not be enough.