this north/south london thing.

[tronman]

The first ever Black Taxi was from Hackney and I think the Taxi trade mostly operated from around that area (maybe still does?).

yeh i always thought the Black Taxi's home was the square-mile, City of London(east). although there is a fleet of around 20-30 Black Taxi's operating out of East Croydon station on busy evenings.. charging City rates!! the bastards!!

[seckle]

the north south divide is harmless fun, a bit like the north south divide in the whole of england. There are differences in the areas, but maybe they're only really obvious to Londoners?

the differences stem from all kinds of factors- Mostly the river yeah but also the built/physical environment (Dan's point about South London being younger is true- it was built upon quite late in relation to East which was one of the first places for industry, cos of the docks.
) and also the migrants we've had over the centuries. For example, Italian's, German's and Russians were settled in the East, Jamaican's in the South.

In the 40's, Britain advertised for workers in Jamaica; when they came over on The Windrush ship (the name of the square opposite Mass in Brixton) most of them were housed in Clapham and Brixton, hence the large West Indian community in South London.

Admittedly I don't know much about North London.. Blackdown?

I do agree that the North-South thing probably has something to do with cabbies as well- the old ' don't go south of the river' phrase is famous amongst londoners. The first ever Black Taxi was from Hackney and I think the Taxi trade mostly operated from around that area (maybe still does?).

As for West London- it;s the Royal area- palaces, parks, museum's ...

8 you beauty! thanks for that. the taxi thing makes perfect sense.

[elgato]

some interesting historical info there 8, thanks for that

i think the rivalry issue probably comes down to quite basic human tendencies, which hark back beyond our current state of evolution. its probably fair to say that theres a human tendency to seek a sense of self in relation to others, to seek groups within which you can find a sense of collective identity. nowadays, there are more and more ways in which we can do this (through the explosion of mass-communication, access to cultures and interest groups well beyond what was previously within our grasps), but territoriality is still a very easy form of identification that we can grasp onto.

i dont think its unique to london by any stretch of the imagination... it exists on a similar level, for example, in the north-east (in fact on boxing day i'll be playing in a north vs south (of the river tyne) football match!), and similar processes can be seen in operation on a more macro scale all across the world, although often with much more serious consequences. i for one try to avoid any indulgence of these things, cos while it can be a guilty pleasure, it remains just that, as i think that for people with little comfort with their social identity it can be potentially alienating and divisive. but thats not to say i can achieve that, because i still feel a sense of pride in my north-eastern heritage. but maybe im just being too serious!

it does lead to an interesting (although i think intractable) debate about the value/necessity of culture and identity if it can be shown to be contrary to interests like cohesion, acceptance and peace...

[mos dan]

some interesting historical info there 8, thanks for that

i think the rivalry issue probably comes down to quite basic human tendencies, which hark back beyond our current state of evolution. its probably fair to say that theres a human tendency to seek a sense of self in relation to others, to seek groups within which you can find a sense of collective identity. nowadays, there are more and more ways in which we can do this (through the explosion of mass-communication, access to cultures and interest groups well beyond what was previously within our grasps), but territoriality is still a very easy form of identification that we can grasp onto.

i dont think its unique to london by any stretch of the imagination... it exists on a similar level, for example, in the north-east (in fact on boxing day i'll be playing in a north vs south (of the river tyne) football match!), and similar processes can be seen in operation on a more macro scale all across the world, although often with much more serious consequences. i for one try to avoid any indulgence of these things, cos while it can be a guilty pleasure, it remains just that, as i think that for people with little comfort with their social identity it can be potentially alienating and divisive. but thats not to say i can achieve that, because i still feel a sense of pride in my north-eastern heritage. but maybe im just being too serious!

it does lead to an interesting (although i think intractable) debate about the value/necessity of culture and identity if it can be shown to be contrary to interests like cohesion, acceptance and peace...

i don't think it need be alienating or divisive to feel a sense of local pride - as you say it can just be harmless fun. it's interesting the connection between, say, rival villages playing ball games (sorta like football) against each other in the 13th century, and now, people playing online interactive games against others from across the world.

that's cool you play a north v south game on boxing day. kinda like that xmas day truce thing in ww1.

yeah large up 8 on the knowledge, i told you she'd sort us out.

[leah]

Think the whole Cray / Richardson ting added to it....

[elgato]

i don't think it need be alienating or divisive to feel a sense of local pride - as you say it can just be harmless fun.

it doesnt necessarily need to be alienating, but i think that when it extends to being at the expense of the identity of others, which it often does, in reality it can often be those things. but mostly i know im being too serious, and a more contextual approach is more appropriate, because when these issues are the cause of real harm often they are in combination with a number of other factors very much absent from my world

that's cool you play a north v south game on boxing day. kinda like that xmas day truce thing in ww1.

it is cool, but not as deep as that thing! thats actually one of the most incredible tales ive ever heard, it fills me with such conflicting and confusing emotions. so deep though. but our game is heavy, its kind of a tradition now. we always get rinsed though

[elgato]

lol as if by design, to substatiate my claim, witness the intensification of beef in the main forum in the SLT Mob thread, and the potential repercussions in the scene

[mos dan]

lol as if by design, to substatiate my claim, witness the intensification of beef in the main forum in the SLT Mob thread, and the potential repercussions in the scene

good call! :bittersweet lol:

there is no legislating for idiots though. they are the ruin of decent theory

[spaceboy]

the north south divide is harmless fun, a bit like the north south divide in the whole of england. There are differences in the areas, but maybe they're only really obvious to Londoners?

the differences stem from all kinds of factors- Mostly the river yeah but also the built/physical environment (Dan's point about South London being younger is true- it was built upon quite late in relation to East which was one of the first places for industry, cos of the docks.
) and also the migrants we've had over the centuries. For example, Italian's, German's and Russians were settled in the East, Jamaican's in the South.

In the 40's, Britain advertised for workers in Jamaica; when they came over on The Windrush ship (the name of the square opposite Mass in Brixton) most of them were housed in Clapham and Brixton, hence the large West Indian community in South London.

Admittedly I don't know much about North London.. Blackdown?

I do agree that the North-South thing probably has something to do with cabbies as well- the old ' don't go south of the river' phrase is famous amongst londoners. The first ever Black Taxi was from Hackney and I think the Taxi trade mostly operated from around that area (maybe still does?).

As for West London- it;s the Royal area- palaces, parks, museum's ...

actually the west indians first came to West London - Notting Hill to be precise, then moved to South. As West London has got more expensive over the years...people who cannot afford have had to move out...

West London is definitely not all rosey, mark my words. But alot of it is, yes. Its a good and strange mix of ethnicities, socio-economic backgrounds, religions etc.

In terms of music: We've had Hyper D, Blackmarket, Ed Rush Optical, Trace, The Clash, to name but a few and for you dubwise people...Marley used to live in Ravenscourt Park whenever he visited...standard...