Cans vs Monitors

[hayze99]

Here's a question I've been wondering for a while; how good are a shit hot pair of headphones versus an entry level pair of monitors.

RIght now I'm borrowing my mate's Bose around ear headphones and was first of all wondering whether they're good enough to produce on.

https://www.belmonttv.com/mm5/graphics/ ... phones.jpg

But overall, I live on a council estate, so I need to keep the noise level down. My Altec's do the job for my mixing, but I'm not sure whether I should splash out on a set of HD-25s, or KRK-RP5s

Advice?

[hurlingdervish]

sennheiser hd25 arent worth the cash. you can do much better in that price range, but try out different headphones if you can

its like guitar brands, yea theres that 600 dollar gibson, but they sacrificed good specs and quality to slap their name on it and bring up the price from something that was probably worth half what they want.

the 5" speakers wont give much bass response at all but will sound good in a small ish room

you need both, a good set of phones and speakers

compare specs and prices

[future one]

For a start, those headphones you mentioned aren't all that. I wouldn't wanna make beats on HD-25s.

Something like these AKG K 240s would be better - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/K240S/

These Sennheisers are really good http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD650

[b-lam]

From what I've heard, pretty much any half-decent setup is ok if you know it REALLY well, breakage said on here in the q+a he uses poor quality hifi speakers...

I've produced on both monitors and cans, and have found it easier to mix tunes on my monitors (tannoy reveal 5A's) than headphones, but then again I've only just recently bought some professional level headphones and got a crossfeed so maybe that will help. As long as you reference with other tunes and try it out on various different setups when you're close to completion then I reckon it's possible to get a good mix with any monitoring situation.

Macc who posts on here produces on headphones and he knows his shit. I think he's written on here that he does this because of issues that an un-treated room will have on using monitors.

IMO, once you know that producing is going to be a long-term thing for you then it's worth buying something decent, be it headphones or speakers, just because you will enjoy it more.

PS: Heard nothing but love about Sennheiser HD280's so they're worth checking out if u do go down headphone route.

[hayze99]

Cheers for the quick responses guys. The AKGs look brilliant and cheap, so I might go down that route. The room I produce in is fairly big (small living room size) and not a perfect rectangle, so no matter what, there's going to be some distortion. In the end, I just like making beats as a hobby, I'm not into all the high fidelity stuff, so it doesn't need to be gold.

[hurlingdervish]

i love my AKG's

[future one]

The room I produce in is fairly big (small living room size) and not a perfect rectangle,

Those are good things! You don't want to be in a square or rectangle room. Bigger rooms are also better however you will need speakers with 6 inch or larger woofers to get any decent sub bass.

[cloak and dagger]

I've produced on both monitors and cans, and have found it easier to mix tunes on my monitors (tannoy reveal 5A's) than headphones, but then again I've only just recently bought some professional level headphones and got a crossfeed so maybe that will help. As long as you reference with other tunes and try it out on various different setups when you're close to completion then I reckon it's possible to get a good mix with any monitoring situation.

In my experience, headphones will really help with sound design, hearing anything that clashes, and producing synth patches, etc. However, my headphones (Sennheiser 280 pro) give you a flat sound that makes it a little hard for monitoring and setting levels. I find that all of the subtle sounds in my tunes have to sound a bit loud and un-subtle in the headphones to sound subtle on my monitors or a club system.

Before that, I was using 20-year old hi-fi speakers and some cheap Stanton DJ headphones that sounded really similar to the hi-fi setup, so it was MUCH easier to monitor on, since I knew how it should sound and it didn't sound all that different from what I was used to producing on. So really, it's more about being comfortable with your equipment than anything else.

[youthful_implants]

I simply could not work without my headphones, but the same of my monitors.

I use the Rokit VXTs to monitor and they're fantastic but the room I'm in is an acoustic nightmare and the headphones really allow me create mixes that aren't coloured by the room.

I also find writing music so much faster in headphones, am more proactive and progress more consistently. Part of that is do with keeping the overall level low (and therefore not getting fatigued) which I find harder to do with the monitors (cos they sound so good) and part of it is when I'm using my monitors am unfortunately aware that other people can hear it and as anyone who produces knows its the most anti-social thing you can do to your neighbours.

Mixing certain things is easier in headphones (I use HD25s) such as FX like reverb and delay where you can really hear how they tail off and setting levels of most other things with pinpont accuracy.

[nowaysj]

I don't know how anyone mixes in headphones. I have good phones, the Beyerdynamic dt 770's. I think their good, but the levels of various sounds change so dramatically between them and my krk 5's. I used to use those bose, as well, and they can't hold up to the 770's, by a long shot.

I mean, it really depends on what you are doing. I can get song ideas down on the phones, like write phrases, write beats, but for mixing type issues, like eq compression fx levels and overall volume adjustments, I have to be on monitors. It just changes so much. But the point is, you can bang out toons on any crappy headphones, but you'll need decent monitors to get the mix working.

Also re the hifi speakers. If you know them, ya you can know how they translate, meaning general eq and compression, but they may completely not show problems. Like they don't reveal a buzzing or ringing at a certain frequency, that most other systems will show. I've had that happen to me on a number of occasions. The point of the monitor is just to hear what is actually there, the good and the bad.

If I had to choose I'd do this, krk 6's, then some headphones when you set up later, then a sub after that, then you will be in monitor heaven.

[macc]

If your room isn't properly sorted out then headphones will be essential for judging the low end. Most rooms will have variations of up to 30 dB in the low end at a given listening position - even across something small like a 10 Hz range. That's the main reason I worked on cans only (at home anyway) for about 8 years or so. Now I've got a permanent space I've moved to proper (!) monitors with about 35-40 bass traps, spent months and months and a lot of money sorting the room out etc etc. Now I have confidence that what I hear is what it is the cans don't get so much use (though I still love em).

Anyway, thing is that the better your room (and the gear, I'm afraid to say), the closer the agreement will be between speakers and cans. Judging low end on cans can be easier than in a crap room with poor speaker positioning but you have to know them. Judging panning/space/depth can be easier on speakers (if you have half decent positioning) but you have to know where you're putting stuff.

Main point is that with *any* changes to your monitoring you should do an absolute shitload of listening to alllllllll sorts of music. The only way to know a system is listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen. All kinds of music, all kinds of abilities/levels, all that. Listen to perfect stuff, horrible stuff, stuff you love, stuff you hate. Dubstep, dnb, jazz, pop, rock, whatever. Do some listening at the start and end of a session, and AB all the way through. Whatever you use, listen, and listen some more. Stick with it and keep listening. Have a few tracks you listen to every day. Listen listen listen.

It's all about confidence, which comes from trusting your monitoring, which (to some extent) comes from knowing your monitoring.

[Sharmaji]

because headphones are usually so jacked at the spectrums, they're really good for making decisions on lowend and highend issues.

i find headphones really hinder my ability to do dynamic processing though-- i always overcompress in cans. my only reasoning is that the moving elements are so much closer to my ears, so you get this hyperreal dynamism going.

In an ideal world, you'd have some big-ass soffit mounted Tannoy's that could hit 120dB to check the rockingness of your mix, maybe some genelec's set up in a 5.1 system, yr favorite nearfields, some avanotones to see how things sound thru small speakers, and some varying sets of cans...

then again in an ideal world i'd have megan fox on all 4's used as a beer table. we take what we can get.

[DZA]

then again in an ideal world i'd have megan fox on all 4's used as a beer table. we take what we can get.

TOE THUMB

[Sharmaji]

then again in an ideal world i'd have megan fox on all 4's used as a beer table. we take what we can get.

TOE THUMB

This makes more sense than i originally expected.

[levitate]

im pretty curious to see how well this soundcard sounds:

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~nam ... ~12142.asp

allegedly this VRM technology simulates the sound of different types of monitors/rooms for mixing with headphones. it's tempting but sounds potentially gimmicky.