"Obama Deserved It!"

Off Topic (Everything besides dubstep)
Forum rules
Please read and follow this sub-forum's specific rules listed HERE, as well as our sitewide rules listed HERE.

Link to the Secret Ninja Sessions community ustream channel - info in this thread
User avatar
alien pimp
Posts: 5739
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am
Location: 13 Years 1 Love
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:47 pm

magma wrote:As a Brit who's lived with the NHS all his life I can honestly say I can't imagine living anywhere without public health care. I get private cover through my work, BUPA and others seem to still make good profits and my parents didn't get crippled by care bills for my Grandma's last few years (your last year of health care costs more than the average person uses in a lifetime).

To have a 'modern' society with designs on leading the 'free world' that doesn't even show enough compassion to look after it's own citizens, leaving MILLIONS uninsured is absolutely laughable. It reflects massively in the US image around the world... More interested in profit than making sure it's citizens have the best lives. Convincing themselves they have the "best health care system in the god damn world" whilst languishing behind most if the developed world in life expectancy and general health and wellbeing.

I think Obama understands that, but does he have the courage of his conviction? Whilst connections to medical companies could be seen as 'cause' they could also be explained as consequence. Obama was suggesting radical shakeups to their industry and he looked like he was going to win, so the companies just onboard to make sure they're in the process. Obama again needs to make sure he's got the balls to not be leveraged into selling out his principles.
on the other hand, statistics on the efficiency of your health care system apparently put UK in a pretty bad position compared to other EU countries
sorry i can't provide links, but i guess you can find them easily, would be helpful to research them

against obama stands one big thing though: "If only some people get something, let's make sure it's our people". in other words: soon you'll get it only if you play along

(not being on any side on the NHS issue though, i didn't research it enough myself, just dropped some pieces in the puzzle)
ADULT BASS MUSIC VOL. 1 - MIDTEMPO + UPTEMPO EDITIONS - OUT NOW!

Soundcloud
Soundcloud
http://dubkraftrecords.com
http://silviucostinescu.info

User avatar
magma
Posts: 18810
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by magma » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:23 am

alien pimp wrote:on the other hand, statistics on the efficiency of your health care system apparently put UK in a pretty bad position compared to other EU countries
sorry i can't provide links, but i guess you can find them easily, would be helpful to research them

against obama stands one big thing though: "If only some people get something, let's make sure it's our people". in other words: soon you'll get it only if you play along

(not being on any side on the NHS issue though, i didn't research it enough myself, just dropped some pieces in the puzzle)
Totally, we're not perfect... but those other European nations all have nationalised health care too. In fact, I can get free health care in any EEA countries (and Switzerland) with my European Health Insurance Card, as they can in Britain.

You're right that British care isn't the best in the world (and we have plenty of issues to iron out in the NHS), but compared to countries that don't have public health care we're practically a shining beacon of wellbeing! :lol:
Meus equus tuo altior est

"Let me eat when I'm hungry, let me drink when I'm dry.
Give me dollars when I'm hard up, religion when I die."
nowaysj wrote:I wholeheartedly believe that Michael Brown's mother and father killed him.

User avatar
alien pimp
Posts: 5739
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am
Location: 13 Years 1 Love
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:30 pm

magma wrote:
alien pimp wrote:on the other hand, statistics on the efficiency of your health care system apparently put UK in a pretty bad position compared to other EU countries
sorry i can't provide links, but i guess you can find them easily, would be helpful to research them

against obama stands one big thing though: "If only some people get something, let's make sure it's our people". in other words: soon you'll get it only if you play along

(not being on any side on the NHS issue though, i didn't research it enough myself, just dropped some pieces in the puzzle)
Totally, we're not perfect... but those other European nations all have nationalised health care too. In fact, I can get free health care in any EEA countries (and Switzerland) with my European Health Insurance Card, as they can in Britain.

You're right that British care isn't the best in the world (and we have plenty of issues to iron out in the NHS), but compared to countries that don't have public health care we're practically a shining beacon of wellbeing! :lol:
you know better anyway...
this one's related and funny: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8200844.stm
ADULT BASS MUSIC VOL. 1 - MIDTEMPO + UPTEMPO EDITIONS - OUT NOW!

Soundcloud
Soundcloud
http://dubkraftrecords.com
http://silviucostinescu.info

feral witchchild
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:49 am

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by feral witchchild » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:35 pm

surface_tension wrote:
Image
I knew it was just a matter of time before it happened, but damn, to see it spelled out so blatantly like this... :|

I think Obama's gon' do it. Even if he doesn't do it this time around.

...and you can bet people are stupid enough to give him a second term as long as he doesn't go out of his way to do something DIRECTLY fucked up. Even if he did, though, his people would find some way to spin it and the American public would be stupid enough to let it go.
collige wrote:some stay dry and others feel the pain.

surface_tension
Posts: 3063
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:53 am
Location: Windianapolis, Windiana
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by surface_tension » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:12 pm

magma wrote:we're practically a shining beacon of wellbeing! :lol:
Until you have cancer or a heart transplant, then you'll be looking for the cheapest flight to America.

How Government Solved the Health Care Crisis

Medical Insurance that Worked — Until Government "Fixed" It

by Roderick T. Long

Today, we are constantly being told, the United States faces a health care crisis. Medical costs are too high, and health insurance is out of reach of the poor. The cause of this crisis is never made very clear, but the cure is obvious to nearly everybody: government must step in to solve the problem.

Eighty years ago, Americans were also told that their nation was facing a health care crisis. Then, however, the complaint was that medical costs were too low, and that health insurance was too accessible. But in that era, too, government stepped forward to solve the problem. And boy, did it solve it!

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, one of the primary sources of health care and health insurance for the working poor in Britain, Australia, and the United States was the fraternal society. Fraternal societies (called "friendly societies" in Britain and Australia) were voluntary mutual-aid associations. Their descendants survive among us today in the form of the Shriners, Elks, Masons, and similar organizations, but these no longer play the central role in American life they formerly did. As recently as 1920, over one-quarter of all adult Americans were members of fraternal societies. (The figure was still higher in Britain and Australia.) Fraternal societies were particularly popular among blacks and immigrants. (Indeed, Teddy Roosevelt's famous attack on "hyphenated Americans" was motivated in part by hostility to the immigrants' fraternal societies; he and other Progressives sought to "Americanize" immigrants by making them dependent for support on the democratic state, rather than on their own independent ethnic communities.)

The principle behind the fraternal societies was simple. A group of working-class people would form an association (or join a local branch, or "lodge," of an existing association) and pay monthly fees into the association's treasury; individual members would then be able to draw on the pooled resources in time of need. The fraternal societies thus operated as a form of self-help insurance company.

Turn-of-the-century America offered a dizzying array of fraternal societies to choose from. Some catered to a particular ethnic or religious group; others did not. Many offered entertainment and social life to their members, or engaged in community service. Some "fraternal" societies were run entirely by and for women. The kinds of services from which members could choose often varied as well, though the most commonly offered were life insurance, disability insurance, and "lodge practice."

"Lodge practice" refers to an arrangement, reminiscent of today's HMOs, whereby a particular society or lodge would contract with a doctor to provide medical care to its members. The doctor received a regular salary on a retainer basis, rather than charging per item; members would pay a yearly fee and then call on the doctor's services as needed. If medical services were found unsatisfactory, the doctor would be penalized, and the contract might not be renewed. Lodge members reportedly enjoyed the degree of customer control this system afforded them. And the tendency to overuse the physician's services was kept in check by the fraternal society's own "self-policing"; lodge members who wanted to avoid future increases in premiums were motivated to make sure that their fellow members were not abusing the system.

Most remarkable was the low cost at which these medical services were provided. At the turn of the century, the average cost of "lodge practice" to an individual member was between one and two dollars a year. A day's wage would pay for a year's worth of medical care. By contrast, the average cost of medical service on the regular market was between one and two dollars per visit. Yet licensed physicians, particularly those who did not come from "big name" medical schools, competed vigorously for lodge contracts, perhaps because of the security they offered; and this competition continued to keep costs low.

The response of the medical establishment, both in America and in Britain, was one of outrage; the institution of lodge practice was denounced in harsh language and apocalyptic tones. Such low fees, many doctors charged, were bankrupting the medical profession. Moreover, many saw it as a blow to the dignity of the profession that trained physicians should be eagerly bidding for the chance to serve as the hirelings of lower-class tradesmen. It was particularly detestable that such uneducated and socially inferior people should be permitted to set fees for the physicians' services, or to sit in judgment on professionals to determine whether their services had been satisfactory. The government, they demanded, must do something.

And so it did. In Britain, the state put an end to the "evil" of lodge practice by bringing health care under political control. Physicians' fees would now be determined by panels of trained professionals (i.e., the physicians themselves) rather than by ignorant patients. State-financed medical care edged out lodge practice; those who were being forced to pay taxes for "free" health care whether they wanted it or not had little incentive to pay extra for health care through the fraternal societies, rather than using the government care they had already paid for.

In America, it took longer for the nation's health care system to be socialized, so the medical establishment had to achieve its ends more indirectly; but the essential result was the same. Medical societies like the AMA imposed sanctions on doctors who dared to sign lodge practice contracts. This might have been less effective if such medical societies had not had access to government power; but in fact, thanks to governmental grants of privilege, they controlled the medical licensure procedure, thus ensuring that those in their disfavor would be denied the right to practice medicine.

Such licensure laws also offered the medical establishment a less overt way of combating lodge practice. It was during this period that the AMA made the requirements for medical licensure far more strict than they had previously been. Their reason, they claimed, was to raise the quality of medical care. But the result was that the number of physicians fell, competition dwindled, and medical fees rose; the vast pool of physicians bidding for lodge practice contracts had been abolished. As with any market good, artifical restrictions on supply created higher prices — a particular hardship for the working-class members of fraternal societies.

The final death blow to lodge practice was struck by the fraternal societies themselves. The National Fraternal Congress — attempting, like the AMA, to reap the benefits of cartelization — lobbied for laws decreeing a legal minimum on the rates fraternal societies could charge. Unfortunately for the lobbyists, the lobbying effort was successful; the unintended consequence was that the minimum rates laws made the services of fraternal societies no longer competitive. Thus the National Fraternal Congress' lobbying efforts, rather than creating a formidable mutual-aid cartel, simply destroyed the fraternal societies' market niche — and with it the opportunity for low-cost health care for the working poor.

Why do we have a crisis in health care costs today? Because government "solved" the last one.



Bibliogaphy

David T. Beito. "The 'Lodge Practice Evil' Reconsidered: Medical Care Through Fraternal Societies, 1900-1930." (unpublished)

David T. Beito. "Mutual Aid for Social Welfare: The Case of American Fraternal Societies." Critical Review, Vol. 4, no. 4 (Fall 1990).

David Green. Reinventing Civil Society: The Rediscovery of Welfare Without Politics. Institute of Economic Affairs, London, 1993.

David Green. Working Class Patients and the Medical Establishment: Self-Help in Britain from the Mid-Nineteenth Century to 1948. St. Martin's Press, New York, 1985.

David Green & Lawrence Cromwell. Mutual Aid or Welfare State: Australia's Friendly Societies. Allen & Unwin, Sydney, 1984.

P. Gosden. The Friendly Societies in England, 1815-1875. Manchester University Press, Manchester, 1961.

P. Gosden. Self-Help: Voluntary Associations in the 19th Century. Batsford Press, London, 1973.

Albert Loan. "Institutional Bases of the Spontaneous Order: Surety and Assurance." Humane Studies Review, Vol. 7, no. 1, 1991/92.

Leslie Siddeley. "The Rise and Fall of Fraternal Insurance Organizations." Humane Studies Review, Vol. 7, no. 2, 1992.

S. David Young. The Rule of Experts: Occupational Licensing in America. Cato Institute, Washington, 1987.

User avatar
alien pimp
Posts: 5739
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am
Location: 13 Years 1 Love
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:56 pm

thanks ST!
great reading!
not surprised though, it's the same pattern more or less as for everything
and then, after a few generations, people think there's no other way and the state/government is our caring parent, making mistakes now and then, but you can't have any better...
anything we've been taught on official channels needs to be taken not with a pinch but with a spoon of salt
ADULT BASS MUSIC VOL. 1 - MIDTEMPO + UPTEMPO EDITIONS - OUT NOW!

Soundcloud
Soundcloud
http://dubkraftrecords.com
http://silviucostinescu.info

User avatar
alfie
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:55 pm
Location: barcelona

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alfie » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:04 pm

bupa can only operate as a leech on the nhs, they'll happily treat the easy, profitable illnesses but if you get anything serious then you're straight off to the local public hospital. private companies simply can't offer a comprehensive health service as it isn't a viable business model- you don't see bupa ambulances flying past, or bupa a&e centres.

User avatar
magma
Posts: 18810
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by magma » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:15 pm

surface_tension wrote:
magma wrote:we're practically a shining beacon of wellbeing! :lol:
Until you have cancer or a heart transplant, then you'll be looking for the cheapest flight to America.
.
Err, I know a few people that have had cancer and had it dealt with by the NHS... we have lovely things like free, routine screening for breast cancer in women over a certain age. I know at least two women that have gone in for treatment thanks to that system and come out healthy. You're being fed utter, utter lies by Fox if you think that NHS hospitals are simply places to go and die. Our NHS isn't the best in the world (and we also get to suuplement it in the private industry - which is very competitive with your private health care), but it's infinitely better than having uninsured people out there.

Seriously... what is your plan for the uninsured? Why isn't it the country's job to make sure it's citizens have access to free health care? The country looks after other things it sees as important... education, defence, large amounts of the transport network... so why should the country not put some aside so that it's lower orders can live long, healthy lives? It seems the caring thing to do.

Of course, if all you give a fuck about is profits and national GDPs then I'm sure you can argue that having healthy citizens is a bad thing. That's what you're doing, right? I mean, British people have longer life expectancies than Americans - it seems quite simple that you care about people making profit more than people having long lives?

I mean, why the fuck do you care even if Big Business takes a shot to the chin? What does it matter if your people live longer?! This genuinely confuses me. All the statistics on life expectancy are against you, yet you continue to describe public health care in such disparaging terms. It sounds like Bill O Reilly really did a number on you... :lol:
Meus equus tuo altior est

"Let me eat when I'm hungry, let me drink when I'm dry.
Give me dollars when I'm hard up, religion when I die."
nowaysj wrote:I wholeheartedly believe that Michael Brown's mother and father killed him.

User avatar
hurlingdervish
Posts: 2971
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:29 pm

magma wrote:
surface_tension wrote:
magma wrote:we're practically a shining beacon of wellbeing! :lol:
Until you have cancer or a heart transplant, then you'll be looking for the cheapest flight to America.
.
Err, I know a few people that have had cancer and had it dealt with by the NHS... we have lovely things like free, routine screening for breast cancer in women over a certain age. I know at least two women that have gone in for treatment thanks to that system and come out healthy. You're being fed utter, utter lies by Fox if you think that NHS hospitals are simply places to go and die. Our NHS isn't the best in the world (and we also get to suuplement it in the private industry - which is very competitive with your private health care), but it's infinitely better than having uninsured people out there.

Seriously... what is your plan for the uninsured? Why isn't it the country's job to make sure it's citizens have access to free health care? The country looks after other things it sees as important... education, defence, large amounts of the transport network... so why should the country not put some aside so that it's lower orders can live long, healthy lives? It seems the caring thing to do.

Of course, if all you give a fuck about is profits and national GDPs then I'm sure you can argue that having healthy citizens is a bad thing. That's what you're doing, right? I mean, British people have longer life expectancies than Americans - it seems quite simple that you care about people making profit more than people having long lives?

I mean, why the fuck do you care even if Big Business takes a shot to the chin? What does it matter if your people live longer?! This genuinely confuses me. All the statistics on life expectancy are against you, yet you continue to describe public health care in such disparaging terms. It sounds like Bill O Reilly really did a number on you... :lol:
confuses the fuck out of me too and i live here.

its mostly selfish reasons, "I WORKED FOR IT SO YOU DO TOO"

"PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS DON'T NEED HELP, THEY CHOSE TO BE HOMELESS" (people actually think that... :roll: )

its all well and good to spend money killing people, but for some reason its defying god to help them. what the flying fuck.

User avatar
collige
Posts: 6316
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:50 am
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:31 pm

The problem with simply doing away with private health care as it exists now is that it would leave a shitload of people without a job and those whose health care quality would go down (ie the rich & powerful) would throw a fit. The current plan (creating a public health option that would create competition for greedy insurance companies) is good, but people are ignorant and Congress spend all of its time arguing.
Statement of Intent VIP / Sahaquiel v4 single out now on UK Trends.
Soundcloud
Soundcloud | Bandcamp | Mixcloud | Twitter

User avatar
alien pimp
Posts: 5739
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am
Location: 13 Years 1 Love
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:37 pm

magma wrote: British people have longer life expectancies than Americans - it seems quite simple that you care about people making profit more than people having long lives?
yeah, by one year :lol:
and it doesn't all depend on the health insurance for sure
not taking either sides yet, but for sure life expectancy is no argument here

one thing is for sure: the state is just another company too, only it's also making the rules of the game
ADULT BASS MUSIC VOL. 1 - MIDTEMPO + UPTEMPO EDITIONS - OUT NOW!

Soundcloud
Soundcloud
http://dubkraftrecords.com
http://silviucostinescu.info

User avatar
hurlingdervish
Posts: 2971
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:40 pm

collige wrote:The problem with simply doing away with private health care as it exists now is that it would leave a shitload of people without a job and those whose health care quality would go down (ie the rich & powerful) would throw a fit. The current plan (creating a public health option that would create competition for greedy insurance companies) is good, but people are ignorant and Congress spend all of its time arguing.
so wouldn't doing anything else beneficial to our future.

lost jobs < lost lives.

fuck the car industry too...fire everyone. rehire them at TESLA. if they don't wanna? too bad.

User avatar
collige
Posts: 6316
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:50 am
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Health care is 15% of our GDP. Lost jobs = more people on welfare + less spending = less tax money to support the new health care system.

Letting the car industry crash would be even worse though as the car industry supports dozens of other ones. If GM stops making car, that fucks over people who work make leather, electronics, glass, metal, and the countless other things that go into a car.
Statement of Intent VIP / Sahaquiel v4 single out now on UK Trends.
Soundcloud
Soundcloud | Bandcamp | Mixcloud | Twitter

User avatar
alien pimp
Posts: 5739
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am
Location: 13 Years 1 Love
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:51 pm

collige wrote:Health care is 15% of our GDP. Lost jobs = more people on welfare + less spending = less tax money to support the new health care system.

Letting the car industry crash would be even worse though as the car industry supports dozens of other ones. If GM stops making car, that fucks over people who work make leather, electronics, glass, metal, and the countless other things that go into a car.
that's exactly what ruined the communist industries - producing shit nobody cared for just for the sake of giving everyone a job. a job isn't a job if no one needs it, it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
ADULT BASS MUSIC VOL. 1 - MIDTEMPO + UPTEMPO EDITIONS - OUT NOW!

Soundcloud
Soundcloud
http://dubkraftrecords.com
http://silviucostinescu.info

User avatar
hurlingdervish
Posts: 2971
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:53 pm

collige wrote:Health care is 15% of our GDP. Lost jobs = more people on welfare + less spending = less tax money to support the new health care system.
they could still find jobs elsewhere in health departments. if they are in insurance...well they know what the hell they are doing and its not good. if they are innocent of the guilt of health insurance companies than they have skills that can probably work elsewhere

Letting the car industry crash would be even worse though as the car industry supports dozens of other ones. If GM stops making car, that fucks over people who work make leather, electronics, glass, metal, and the countless other things that go into a car.
because none of those things work in electric cars?

these things are all scare tactics

User avatar
foo
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:50 am
Location: Groningen, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by foo » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:56 pm

I totally agree. He deserved it. (most of all he can use it well) Go Obama!

User avatar
hurlingdervish
Posts: 2971
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by hurlingdervish » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:02 pm

alien pimp wrote:
collige wrote:Health care is 15% of our GDP. Lost jobs = more people on welfare + less spending = less tax money to support the new health care system.

Letting the car industry crash would be even worse though as the car industry supports dozens of other ones. If GM stops making car, that fucks over people who work make leather, electronics, glass, metal, and the countless other things that go into a car.
that's exactly what ruined the communist industries - producing shit nobody cared for just for the sake of giving everyone a job. a job isn't a job if no one needs it, it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
maybe leeching isnt the right phrase
for that to happen it would have to exist
more like birth control

User avatar
fuagofire
Posts: 1611
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: oxford

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by fuagofire » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:07 pm

alien pimp wrote:
magma wrote: British people have longer life expectancies than Americans - it seems quite simple that you care about people making profit more than people having long lives?
yeah, by one year :lol:
and it doesn't all depend on the health insurance for sure
not taking either sides yet, but for sure life expectancy is no argument here

one thing is for sure: the state is just another company too, only it's also making the rules of the game
well given the amount we drink that's not bad going to be fair.

User avatar
alien pimp
Posts: 5739
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am
Location: 13 Years 1 Love
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by alien pimp » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:25 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:
alien pimp wrote:
collige wrote:Health care is 15% of our GDP. Lost jobs = more people on welfare + less spending = less tax money to support the new health care system.

Letting the car industry crash would be even worse though as the car industry supports dozens of other ones. If GM stops making car, that fucks over people who work make leather, electronics, glass, metal, and the countless other things that go into a car.
that's exactly what ruined the communist industries - producing shit nobody cared for just for the sake of giving everyone a job. a job isn't a job if no one needs it, it's just a disguised welfare leaching the people who are really doing something useful
maybe leeching isnt the right phrase
for that to happen it would have to exist
more like birth control
not sure i get you this time bro
what to exist?

anyway, when people pay you just to save the discomfort of seeing you becoming an useless drunk - that's leeching
Last edited by alien pimp on Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ADULT BASS MUSIC VOL. 1 - MIDTEMPO + UPTEMPO EDITIONS - OUT NOW!

Soundcloud
Soundcloud
http://dubkraftrecords.com
http://silviucostinescu.info

User avatar
collige
Posts: 6316
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:50 am
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: "Obama Deserved It!"

Post by collige » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:27 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:
collige wrote:Health care is 15% of our GDP. Lost jobs = more people on welfare + less spending = less tax money to support the new health care system.
they could still find jobs elsewhere in health departments. if they are in insurance...well they know what the hell they are doing and its not good. if they are innocent of the guilt of health insurance companies than they have skills that can probably work elsewhere

Letting the car industry crash would be even worse though as the car industry supports dozens of other ones. If GM stops making car, that fucks over people who work make leather, electronics, glass, metal, and the countless other things that go into a car.
because none of those things work in electric cars?

these things are all scare tactics
Tesla has their own parts providers and unless they magically explode to the same level of manufacturing as GM that isn't gonna cut it. It would amount to the same thing as the government financing Tesla themselves, which is a ridiculous idea in a (relatively) free-market economy.

The bailout may have been disguised welfare, but I would prefer welfare to several million people who are suddenly without jobs (and thus health insurance) in the middle of a recession.
Statement of Intent VIP / Sahaquiel v4 single out now on UK Trends.
Soundcloud
Soundcloud | Bandcamp | Mixcloud | Twitter

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests