Can dubstep learn from the mistakes of DnB?

triac · Post by **triac** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:14 pm

I don't really think drum n bass made any mistakes - what has happened to that scene was pretty much inevitable I'd say. If dubstep goes the same way as drum n bass I think we should all be pretty happy; the end result as I see it is lots of good music. For sure the innovation seems to have dried up in DnB right now, but that doesn't stop me enjoying drum n bass from 95 or 2005. Dubstep as a scene ain't gonna last forever, but if it provides as much pleasure as drum n bass has, and a legacy of music of the same quality, I'd call it a total success...

Btw, does anyone see any of the 'mistakes' of dnb in some of the dubstep/breakstep discussion that go on in this forum...? I'm not saying there are real parallels to be drawn, but I do sometimes think they're pointlessly divisive and won't benefit anyone......

amen-ra · Post by **amen-ra** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:44 pm

triac wrote:I don't really think drum n bass made any mistakes - what has happened to that scene was pretty much inevitable I'd say. If dubstep goes the same way as drum n bass I think we should all be pretty happy; the end result as I see it is lots of good music. For sure the innovation seems to have dried up in DnB right now, but that doesn't stop me enjoying drum n bass from 95 or 2005. Dubstep as a scene ain't gonna last forever, but if it provides as much pleasure as drum n bass has, and a legacy of music of the same quality, I'd call it a total success...

Btw, does anyone see any of the 'mistakes' of dnb in some of the dubstep/breakstep discussion that go on in this forum...? I'm not saying there are real parallels to be drawn, but I do sometimes think they're pointlessly divisive and won't benefit anyone......

Thankyou

If Dubstep is gonna "fail" it has to have a clear destination in mind so we can measure its success or failure, does dubstep have a goal?? Does it ever really stop anywhere or is the sky the limit?? What is the sky?? Where does it take me??

And who is this Dubstep dude anyway??

It doesn't need to be anything neccessarily, dubsteppers should just keep playing the game- "A finite player plays within boundaries; infinite players play with boundaries". It's up to the individuals pushing this sound on the frontline to check their intentions- we can't control anything but our selves, that goes for everyone from the top boyz down to the hardcore fans down to the haters

Jus some thoughts

Big-up everyone on this 138 shit

tom (redeye) · Post by **tom (redeye)** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:53 pm

There is space in Dubstep that the never ending tempo rise of D & B has removed, an artist has the chance to entertain with less constraint IMO.

amen-ra · Post by **amen-ra** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:06 pm

Tom (Redeye) wrote:There is space in Dubstep that the never ending tempo rise of D & B has removed, an artist has the chance to entertain with less constraint IMO.

Can we really call someone an artist if he iz working with constraints??

I saw an episode of Tower Block Dreams where Jameson was working to meet a deadline for this track he was building, he wanted it entered in the charts so he had to rush certain bits, he was sitting in his studes all stressed out and shit. That's not artistry that's just the politics of the game

A D n B artist has no constraints unless the industry is determining what he makes, hasnt got the time etc etc

The only 'constraints' I can see for any true artist of a genre is the tempo but even this can be bent a bit- like Amit with his half-step beats etc

I dunno man- hit me back and we'll build. I dont think constraints and artists fit together too well
There are no holes in the imagination

amen-ra · Post by **amen-ra** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:11 pm

That wasnt all aimed at you Tom, you just got me thinking.

I've gone off-topic as well

Peace

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:47 pm

Amen-Ra wrote: A D n B artist has no constraints unless the industry is determining what he makes, hasnt got the time etc etc

This is why I'm getting less interested in the whole drumfunk thing... I used to be so into it, and still am sort of, but the only producer that seems to be able to release records regularly is Paradox, and in my opinion, he's steadily made more and more concessions to "industry-standard" drum and bass over the past couple of years. He's upped the tempo, which makes his break work less interesting, which was sort of the point of his tunes in the first place... he's been using noisey growley synths which sound the same as everyone elses... getting people interested by using catchy pop hooks...

Having said that there's still life in drum and bass. Check the new Polska record on Breakin'. Breathtakingly beautiful

http://redeyerecords.co.uk/sounds/cat7929.asf
http://redeyerecords.co.uk/sounds/cat7929b.asf

alex deadman · Post by **alex deadman** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:28 pm

If DnB has fallen into any pitfalls then the only way to beat them in the future is through discussions like this.

Back in the day certain people got together in the industry to form the JAPM (The Junglist Against Perpetrators Movement). They did this for a very good reason, to halt the desperate attempt by the major's to snapple up the next big thing. They didn't do this as part of a philosophy that included never selling out to the majors but simply to preserve the scene so that it would not be immediately consumed and spat out as a passing fad.

The problem with forming this structure of control is that it condenses the power too much, like the Soviet Revolution, something which is righteous and just can quickly become the very epitany of what it seeks to replace. I dont think this has fully occured in DnB, but there is a glass ceiling which can only be passed if you as a producer fit into exacltly what the group wants.

So we need structure to repel the vultres, who will descend.
BUT things should never be locked down, new people should be welcomed rather than repelled. It is onlya selfish and paranoid man who denies the youth's progression.

Theres a lot to say about this subject but i think learning from both the pitfalls and the sucesses is a good idea.

plume · Post by **plume** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:28 pm

Dudeski wrote:While i agree peolple like paradox are good producers, and i sometimes buy their stuff when i'm feeling it; i'd still be bored to death after hearing drumfunk for a whole night.

Those people have been rinsing the same formula for years now, just like the jump-up n liquid producers...luckily there are quite a few exceptions (Amit, Breakage, Chase n Status,...) who don't really give a f*ck about genres and tempos and are keeping things fresh.

you guys have good tastes in music.

tate · Post by **tate** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:51 pm

UFO over easy wrote:guys like Graphic, Martsman, LXC, and Morgan Packard are making awesome glitchy, electronica/techno inspired drum and bass. It has next to nothing to do with the "scene" though.

I'd mention Sileni and Jason oS here too, though Jason is not particularly glitchy

andythetwig · Post by **andythetwig** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:07 am

it's all about exile for me, knob twiddling virtuoso!

I mean, yeah, there's a whole ton of shit drum & bass for the fabric fashionistas, but there's life in the old dog yet!

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:04 am

tom (redeye) · Post by **tom (redeye)** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:45 am

Far too many reaction based DJ fodder tunes, not enough depth.

tate · Post by **tate** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:51 pm

UFO over easy wrote:
tate wrote:I'd mention Sileni and Jason oS here too, though Jason is not particularly glitchy
Oh yeah, both of those guys make great tunes. Jason sent me some tracks a few weeks back, and they're beautiful.

There's a Graphic remix of Twitchy Droid Leg coming next on Offshore too!

Yes, I am eager to hear that Graphic rmx! TPs will be ready in about a month, apparently, as I'm sure you know. Mmmm.

And yeah, Jason oS is a good friend of mine, a real prince of a fellow. Talented, wicked smart, and very funny - not to mention, he is someone with a very rich and uncompromising musical vision (cellist for 20 years, studying electronic sound design at NYU these days). And as you said, he writes truly beautiful music. I look forward to watching his development in the coming years.

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:37 pm

I'd really like to hear some good new D&B, as I aint been following the scene much for a couple of years now. If anyones got links to mixes/tunes would be much apprecciated

mrjiggyfly · Post by **mrjiggyfly** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:42 pm

elemental wrote:I'd really like to hear some good new D&B, as I aint been following the scene much for a couple of years now. If anyones got links to mixes/tunes would be much apprecciated

Yeah, gave up on it over 5 years ago!!!!

Would love to hear something that is good

The very little I've heard lately is the same old tired shit!!!!!!!!

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:36 pm

http://www.sendspace.com/file/dlpktn

That's a link to a mix I did just over six months ago or so.

1. Static - Three Nicotine cigarettes (City Centre Offices)
2. Sileni - Twitchy Droid Leg (Offshore)
3. Polar - Mind of a Killer [remix] (Certificate 18)
4. oS - 808 (Cymbalism)
5. Deep Blue - Immersion (31 Records)
6. Mav - The Tubes (Offshore)
7. Breakage - Spiritualism (Breakin)
8. Seba - Inside Your Mind (Secret Operations)
9. Cartridge - Light Cycles (Freak)

It's only half an hour, and the first track isn't dnb, but I still really like the mix. I sent it over to Nick Gutterbreakz to check out and he featured it on his blog - there's a write up here

http://gutterbreakz.blogspot.com/2005/0 ... nuine.html

See what you think. Most of the artists that've been talked about in this thread are involved somewhere - oS, Breakage, Seba, Sileni etc...

mrjiggyfly · Post by **mrjiggyfly** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:29 pm

Hey Ben??

Nice selection, Quite enjoyable!!

I'm one of those old jaded junglist as well

Man I feel fucking old (about to be 35)

I went to my first rave when you were 2. LOL

Anyway thanks Keep up the good work.

I still see alot of Drum and Bass in the record stores and i wonder who still buys it, then I realize Its mostly the younger crowd who were'nt around in the old days!!!!!

Big UP bruv thanks for the mix

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:47 pm

kuma · Post by **kuma** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:52 pm

elemental wrote:I'd really like to hear some good new D&B, as I aint been following the scene much for a couple of years now. If anyones got links to mixes/tunes would be much apprecciated

static.zed.cbc.ca/users/e/eve/files/gardeneccentrics.mp3

right click and save as..

Eve-Garden Eccentrics

Badawi - Evocation
Pieter K - It could have been you
Plaid - Android
T Power - Circle
Deep Blue - Soho Code X
Hab - Pan
Friend - Thanks for the Cookies
Polar - Mind of a Killer
T Power - Refraction
Sileni - Twitchy Droid Leg
Amit - Sound Warrior
Fanu - The Unseen
Matrix v. Optical - Data Life
Pieter K - Traffic
ASC - Pitch Black
Amon Tobin - Piranha Breaks
Space Time Continuum - Kairo (Subtropic rmx)
Bedouin Ascent - Waveboy

Can dubstep learn from the mistakes of DnB?

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