gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[macc]

Bloody ell.... 21 pages of waffley bollocks and I could have just written that

[gadders]

If anyone could have a cheeky listen to my clip posted in the works in progress section (with the context of this thread in mind) it would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[FillyD]

great thread

Big macc nuff bigups wow Ive learnt alot in just 20mins I'm gonna be on here every day.



http://www.myspace.com/fillydukproducer

http://www.reverbnation.com/fillyd

wow.

[solero]

This thread is so helpful and informative, big up macc, u obviously have a considerable bank of knowledge and it is good to see you are willing to share it! Have been reading for nearly 3 hours now along with confirming some of the terms and I am no where near the last post. Thanks for this, put the bits i have learned (aswell as i have understand them lol) into practice and there is a considerable difference. Gona keep an eye on this one, Big Up!

[knell]

how about some more and less relevance? that would be AWESOMEZ

[larose]

Thanks for all the free advice!!
I now know i was pushing my eq's way to hard. I was not going into red, but my master preset was about 60% but yet my volume was hitting about 100%, i realized i had all my eq's (kicks, Snares, Samples and Bass) way to loud, and everything was competing.

If any one wants to colabb, im using ableton 8.0

Cheers!!

[DubSac]

I cant seem to find anything that explains how to eq a kick in FL studio...someone told me to use paramatic eq, but i dont know what settings to use from there.

[lowpass]

I cant seem to find anything that explains how to eq a kick in FL studio...someone told me to use paramatic eq, but i dont know what settings to use from there.

well what are you after from your sample? more bass? more click? less boom? more boom? noone can give you an eq setting that will work with everything, use your ears

[DubSac]

Soundcloud

to make the kick better in that. someone said it was clashing with the lead

[bleeps]

Epic thread just read it all!

Got a question that I don't think as been covered...

Lets say I follow the good guidelines set down in this thread regarding Drum bus peaks around -9ish with bass roughly a couple of db below....

My question is what are sensible rms levels for these busses? It seems quite possible to have a bus peaking at -9 but with a tiny dynamic range due to heavy limiting on the bus. Sometimes I put a limiter on a drum bus and reducing the dynamic range certainly does not have a HARMFUL effect on the sound, but then it doesn't really seem to have a GOOD effect when level matched either.

So I guess what I am trying to say is, does anyone pay massive attention to their RMS levels of individual busses, and use these RMS levels for repeatability from mix to mix, hence making the mixing process quicker.

Cheers

bleeps

[DubSac]

I made a bass sound, and it sounds a little bit crackelly...i dont know how to make it not crackel, anyone can help me? im sure it needs EQ'd, but when i use the (i use FL studio) parametric EQ, i dont know what settings to use. help would be great, cheers.

[Sharmaji]

Epic thread just read it all!

Got a question that I don't think as been covered...

Lets say I follow the good guidelines set down in this thread regarding Drum bus peaks around -9ish with bass roughly a couple of db below....

My question is what are sensible rms levels for these busses? It seems quite possible to have a bus peaking at -9 but with a tiny dynamic range due to heavy limiting on the bus. Sometimes I put a limiter on a drum bus and reducing the dynamic range certainly does not have a HARMFUL effect on the sound, but then it doesn't really seem to have a GOOD effect when level matched either.

So I guess what I am trying to say is, does anyone pay massive attention to their RMS levels of individual busses, and use these RMS levels for repeatability from mix to mix, hence making the mixing process quicker.

Cheers

bleeps

essentially... no i don't really pay attention to the RMS levels of the drum bus. In the majority of cases I want POWER out of the drums; what balance of RMS/peakdB/freq/ spectrum there is is entirely based on the song, the sounds, etc.

compressing, limiting, and saturating your drums can definitely help make them seem bigger and get louder, but you can only have so much RMS vs. peak-- meaning you can only have so much volume before it starts eating up the punch of your drums. Drums are really, really responsive to compression and by their nature, you have a ton of dynamic space to work with. killing it all, tho, is a pretty extreme thing-- it may sound good and loud in headphones, but play the record on a good system and the drums will have no impact if they don't have good dynamics.

case in point: 90s reggae vs. Sean Paul records from the last 5 years. reggae records from the 90s may be a bit quieter, sure, but you turn them up and BLAM! the drums are banging. meanwhile, the recent crossover reggae... the records are pressed WAY hotter, the drums (and master) are limited like crazy, and sure the record sounds louder--but it doesn't have the impact that a record from 15 years ago does.

you can deal w/ this from the start: build up your snares with a really snappy one for the edge, and a really beefy, limited one for volume. same w/ kicks, etc-- see what it does for you.

but otherwise, i really am only paying attention to RMS on the master.

[bleeps]

I see, thanks Sharmaji.

So when using a compressor on a drum bus its more for gentle character of the compressor rather than loudness yeah? I found a great vst called dynamic range meter (Brainworx) which will tell you the dynamic range of your busses/ master etc, but am unsure what kind of range to let the drum bus have.

I dont dj and therefore don't get a chance to try out stuff on floors, and I think local dj's would get a bit peed off if I kept asking them to play tracks at clubs just so I can hear what its like 'with 2 more db on the drum bus '

So could anyone suggest a good drum bus dynamic range that will definately retain punch, not give mastering engineers a groan of disappointment, and sound sick when mastered and played on a system??

Thanks! Wish I had found this site/thread sooner !!

[macc]

It's absolutely impossible to put any numbers or anything on that. Just listen to it

Some drums sound perfect all spiky and skinny (think, Clyde Stubblefield), some sound perfect all full, fat and beefy (think, Bernard Purdie). The meters would give you totally different readings but they both sound great.

It takes practice, but you'll learn to get a feel for the right balance between squash and space on a case-by-case basis. Meters are handy but, again, make it sound right and leave some room, and you're laughing.

[HAACK]

[EDIT] All figured out now.

[Arshaw]

just a quick question...

say i was proccessing vocals & wanted to limit & compress them.

which of the limiter or compressor would i put first in the chain?

taking into consideration the difference between multiband comp & norm. Comp.

cheers

[Sharmaji]

just a quick question...

say i was proccessing vocals & wanted to limit & compress them.

which of the limiter or compressor would i put first in the chain?

taking into consideration the difference between multiband comp & norm. Comp.

cheers

Depends on which sounds better seriously.

for vox that sound good already, i'll often start with compression, then EQ, then a limiter. try reversing the eq and compressor as well. I usually limit at the end to have a really controlled final product but there's no reason to not try it earlier in the chain.

[ryanhurleyproducer]

can somebody give me some tips on getting a nice, crips, proffesional sounding mix using fruity loops?

[macc]

Try asking on the main forum man (wish this thread wasn't called what it is called tbh)

[lowpass]

Does anybody know what is used to achieve this drum sound (on the kick and snare?)

The closest I've got is by limiting using logic's built in limiter,

I know It's a very compressed sound I'm just wondering what compresser/type of compression it sounds like?

(not looking for presets btw, it just has a very distinct sound imo)

cheers