Anyone think that arabic/islamic countries would be

[hackman]

firky knoooooows man, firky KNOOOOOOWS

[firky]

am in a bad mood, hackman, i just had to come back from the hospital again and i can't be arsed to have some tired debate or petty fucking internet argument with anyone, let alone someone who's got more sense than they have demonstrated on this thread.

[hackman]

me too, i'm just getting rapidly sicker and sicker of life and the world as it is, saw some stuff this morning coming out of israel and just pissed me off
is that about your liver? hope all is good

[DjTrainWreck]

i think it would even things out

ifamericansknew.org

[magma]

and borgorre is israeli lol (bad joke)

Haha I'm aware of this. I was not surprised. lol

I LOVE JEWS THO

i have no problem with jews, just israelis
anyone who lives in israel and allows what happens to go on is just as bad as the politicians and soldiers in my book

So by that rationale it's ok for someone to kill you over the Iraq or Afghanistan wars?

Political and civilian targets are very different kettles of fish.

[hackman]

on a moral basis
i wasn't advocating killing Israelis, just saying it's going to happen through their own fault, and that the people that do it will be justified

[firky]

me too, i'm just getting rapidly sicker and sicker of life and the world as it is, saw some stuff this morning coming out of israel and just pissed me off
is that about your liver? hope all is good

yeah my liver, had to get an ultrasound scan and i have broken ribs, it fucking killed.

as you get older you find that history repeats it's self in different ways and it's all a bit mobious loop. existentialism makes it all the more depressing, "we" are free to do as "we" want and the result is what you see in the world.

[Genevieve]

I disagree with the way Israel came to be but I also disagree with bloodshed on either side.

I think the best thing anyone outside of Israel/Palestine can do is just vote for polical figures who wish not to intervene with the conflict to avoid bloodshed in their own countries as a result of foreign meddling (911, etc etc). Israel won't be attacked by other countries if we stay out of Israel since they have nuclear weapons, similarly, they won't attack other countries because they're literally surrounded by enemies. It'll always be a heated situation. The main source of problems here is Western Europe and the USA adding both fuel to the fire AND keeping peace which is really just a ticking time bomb that disables any form of decent communication between Israel and Palestine.

[Genevieve]

on a moral basis
i wasn't advocating killing Israelis, just saying it's going to happen through their own fault, and that the people that do it will be justified

Violence is never justified unless it's out of direct self-defense. Israeli who were born there who are in no way apart of the conflict do not deserve to die for the actions of their government. Just like the people in the WTC did not deserve to die because Bill Clinton's administration thought it was a good idea to run the Middle East. Nor does the Bill Clinton administration deserve to die, either.

[parson]

ISRAEL IS OUTGASSING ITS UNHEALED TRAUMA
by Paul Levy
As a human being of Jewish heritage, I feel deeply ashamed by what Israel is acting out in Gaza. I feel so shocked by the horror of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians that it has literally taken me a few weeks to sufficiently integrate the trauma which has gotten triggered within me so that I could begin to find words. I feel as if I am sitting in the audience watching a family member who I love perform on stage, and because of my intimate connection and identification with my beloved family member, I am completely mortified by what I see them unconsciously acting out in the world theater. I am rendered numb and speechless, as my face turns pale and my breath is taken away by the extent of Israel’s criminal and moral insanity. It is like watching a dark, destructive inhuman energy making a people its instrument.

How we understand what is happening in Gaza depends upon where we start looking in time. The Israeli-influenced U. S. government/mainstream-media’s propaganda starts the narrative at the missiles being shot by Hamas, who are considered the terrorists, without asking the relevant question - why is Hamas shooting off missiles in the first place? Though Hamas shooting rockets into Israel can in no way be condoned, when we look at the situation in a broader context, we see that Hamas is terrorizing Israel in response to the terror, genocide and holocaust being perpetrated by Israel upon the Palestinians. Hamas is lobbing missiles into Israel to publicize the plight of the Palestinians, to bring international attention to the fact that they are being imprisoned and starved to death, as Israel has not been permitting sufficient food, water, fuel and medicine into the death camp which is Gaza.

There is an insidious double-bind inherent in their conflict. Both Israel and the Palestinians are afraid, and therefore unable to do themselves the very thing they need the other to do, which is to stop the violence. Israel wants security. And the Palestinians just want to be free of Israel’s illegal occupation and have the right to their own self-determination. Israel wants Hamas to stop shooting its missiles into Israel. Hamas insists they will stop if Israel stops oppressing them and gives back to the Palestinians their intrinsic right to exist in freedom. Israel, in its flawless illogic, is afraid to let the Palestinians be free of their domination because it imagines that the Palestinians will then shoot rockets at it, thereby creating as well as perpetuating the very situation it doesn’t want (please see my article “Delusions of Separation”).

To resolve the deadlock, Israel, being in the position of having infinitely more power than the Palestinians, has to be the figure which takes the first step out of the infinite regression. Those with the most power are undoubtedly in a better position to fix a problem than those with the least. Holding the power in its very hands, Israel has it within its grasp to stop abusing it. You can only let go of something if you fully possess it. The fact that Israel is wielding its overwhelming power in a way which creates the very thing it is afraid of is the signature of the traumatized soul caught in the act.

continued here http://awakeninthedream.com/artis/Israe ... ssing.html

[bright maroon]

The entire region is fucked..

Just an excellent example of religion failing everyone.

[helix]

The entire region is fucked..

Just an excellent example of religion failing everyone.

Bright Maroon knows.

[parson]

blaming religion for human nature is a copout.

[helix]

blaming religion for human nature is a copout.

Religion often facilitates certain negative aspects of human nature. Or maybe it's the other way around?

[parson]

blaming that war on religion is like blaming science for the atom bomb.

[feral witchchild]

blaming that war on religion is like blaming science for the atom bomb.

Truth. It's not the beliefs, it's people who use them to do justify evil things.

[Pada]

on a moral basis
i wasn't advocating killing Israelis, just saying it's going to happen through their own fault, and that the people that do it will be justified

Violence is never justified unless it's out of direct self-defense. Israeli who were born there who are in no way apart of the conflict do not deserve to die for the actions of their government. Just like the people in the WTC did not deserve to die because Bill Clinton's administration thought it was a good idea to run the Middle East. Nor does the Bill Clinton administration deserve to die, either.

Was going to post a reply but you said it all for me, cheers.

[firky]

The entire region is fucked..

Just an excellent example of religion failing everyone.

Nah, it's an example of people failing religion.

[bright maroon]

maybe the atom bomb does fail science.

or maybe secular hatered is just a natural expression of particular religions.

[parson]

or maybe it is human nature to fight over arbitrary differences

http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/war-pe ... herifs.php