Anyone think that arabic/islamic countries would be

[hackman]

blaming religion for human nature is a copout.

Parson knows.

on a moral basis
i wasn't advocating killing Israelis, just saying it's going to happen through their own fault, and that the people that do it will be justified

Violence is never justified unless it's out of direct self-defense. Israeli who were born there who are in no way apart of the conflict do not deserve to die for the actions of their government. Just like the people in the WTC did not deserve to die because Bill Clinton's administration thought it was a good idea to run the Middle East. Nor does the Bill Clinton administration deserve to die, either.

Was going to post a reply but you said it all for me, cheers.

so the palestinians won't be killing israelis out of direct self defence?

You might kill a soldier out of self defence, but not a civilian.

erm yes you would
lots of evidence showing the israeli civilians are just as bad if not worse than the soldiers

[magma]

blaming religion for human nature is a copout.

Parson knows.

Violence is never justified unless it's out of direct self-defense. Israeli who were born there who are in no way apart of the conflict do not deserve to die for the actions of their government. Just like the people in the WTC did not deserve to die because Bill Clinton's administration thought it was a good idea to run the Middle East. Nor does the Bill Clinton administration deserve to die, either.

Was going to post a reply but you said it all for me, cheers.

so the palestinians won't be killing israelis out of direct self defence?

You might kill a soldier out of self defence, but not a civilian.

erm yes you would
lots of evidence showing the israeli civilians are just as bad if not worse than the soldiers

If a civilian is personally threatening you, it's a rather different issue to bombing a civilian you've never met or spoken to. Again - what's the difference between killing a random Israeli over the Palestine dispute and killing you over Iraq?

There are lots of Israelis with a perfectly healthy attitude to the problem and plenty trying to help... do they deserve to be targetted to?

[hackman]

If a civilian is personally threatening you, it's a rather different issue to bombing a civilian you've never met or spoken to. Again - what's the difference between killing a random Israeli over the Palestine dispute and killing you over Iraq?

There are lots of Israelis with a perfectly healthy attitude to the problem and plenty trying to help... do they deserve to be targetted to?

when have i ever said killing an innocent is okay, stop putting words in my mouth
a large part of the israeli populous civilians AND soldiers are digging their own graves, that's all i've said
do you find it difficult to understand my posts or something?

[magma]

when have i ever said killing an innocent is okay, stop putting words in my mouth
a large part of the israeli populous civilians AND soldiers are digging their own graves, that's all i've said
do you find it difficult to understand my posts or something?

You said that the action would be "justified", that implies you think it's morally ok.

Of course Palestinians are going to attack Israelis - that's human nature... everyone understands it occurs. Surely the only reason to make a thread like this and to change your avatar to something as incendiary as you have is surely because you agree with killing civilians morally?

I mean, otherwise what was the point in bringing it up? Palestinians have felt justified in killing Israelis for most of my life - what's changed to make this thread necessary?

[hackman]

You said that the action would be "justified", that implies you think it's morally ok.

yep, though not against innocents as you seem to be thinking i've been saying

Of course Palestinians are going to attack Israelis - that's human nature... everyone understands it occurs. Surely the only reason to make a thread like this and to change your avatar to something as incendiary as you have is surely because you agree with killing civilians morally?

you pretty retarded if you think that

I mean, otherwise what was the point in bringing it up? Palestinians have felt justified in killing Israelis for most of my life - what's changed to make this thread necessary?

because it's still going on duuuuuuhhhhhhh
maybe cos it's been going on so long we should just forget about it, i mean we're all used to it now, jews killing arabs, ITS A WAY OF LIFE MAN

[magma]

because it's still going on duuuuuuhhhhhhh
maybe cos it's been going on so long we should just forget about it, i mean we're all used to it now, jews killing arabs, ITS A WAY OF LIFE MAN

Dude, they're all killing each other. I disagree massively with a lot of Israeli policy, but as a liberal and compassionate human being the only proper way I see to resolve border disputes like this is through negotiation. Not by Israelis bombing Palestinians and not by Palestinians bombing Israelis.

Standing on the sidelines, entirely disconnected from the struggle (which you are) and trying to throw petrol on it is entirely counterproductive.

Westerners should, wherever possible, encourage peaceful solutions in the region. Humans killing humans is never good, no matter why they've been driven to it - the important thing is to stop them being driven to it, certainly not hanging out on the Internet encouraging more people to take innocent lives!

It was only once we got Sinn Fein round the negotiating table that any progress was made in Ireland - it wasn't any bombing from the IRA or military campaign from the British that solved that crisis.

Humans compete over resources. You'll notice this quite a bit as time goes on.... but frankly, this attitude of people who sit on the Internet and effectively yell "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!" is ugly, and seriously unpleasant.

[hackman]

certainly not hanging out on the Internet encouraging more people to take innocent lives!

prat
this is the third time i've pointed out to you that i'm not encouraging people to take innocent lives

[hackman]

Westerners should, wherever possible, encourage peaceful solutions in the region.

time and time again it has been shown that this is not possible
israel doesn't want peace, the gov anyway

why would they do this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 569548.stm

[hackman]

but frankly, this attitude of people who sit on the Internet and effectively yell "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!" is ugly, and seriously unpleasant.

find a post where i said anything like that
you blind twat

[magma]

Ok, if we're getting onto the "you blind twat" level of conversation then I'm out.

I'll come back and take notice when you can have a conversation like a grown up.

[hackman]

just cos you can't find a post of mine to back your accusations up
your the one that needs to act like a grown up and admit your wrong and apologise

[magma]

Your first and second posts in this thread say that you think Arabic/Islamic countries are "completely justified in bombing the shit out of israel" and that you realise that is such an extreme point of view it will probably get you banned.

If you don't want that to imply that you think it's fine to kill civilians over political disputes then you're going to have to reword those posts a bit.

Perhaps if you'd said "out of Israeli military bases" or "out of Israeli government buildings" you would've had a slightly different response.

Insults aren't going to get a conversation anywhere - leave them in the playground.

[hackman]

saying someone is justified in doing something is very different to saying that innocent people should be killed
so, ya wrong

[magma]

saying someone is justified in doing something is very different to saying that innocent people should be killed
so, ya wrong

That's what I was pointing out - there's a large difference between them feeling they are justified (simply doing it implies they believe it's justified!) and *you* thinking it's justified.

If *you* think it's justified then *you* think it's morally ok.

You asked "anyone think that"... you were asking for our opinions, not Palestinian opinions.

Palestinians have felt justified in attacking civilian targets in Israel for my entire life. For most of my life, I've felt that no human, whether soldier or civilian has the right to take the life of civilians; so whilst I understand that Palestinians might feel justified, my answer your question is "no, I don't think they're justified."

No need for the aggro, see?

[hackman]

Your first and second posts in this thread say that you think Arabic/Islamic countries are "completely justified in bombing the shit out of israel"

no i didnt

You asked "anyone think that"... you were asking for our opinions, not Palestinian opinions.

oh wait

CONTRADICTION

That's what I was pointing out

no you weren't, because i haven't posted anywhere in this thread anything that says that I think they would be justified

I've felt that no human, whether soldier or civilian has the right to take the life of civilians.

if civilians are going round beating the shit out of other civilians you can't expect the latter group of civilians to not retaliate

[magma]

Ok, if you didn't even agree with your first post then I can't work out why you started the thread, so I doubt it's important enough to carry on replying.

If you don't agree with your own first post, then we agree entirely and I also don't know why you thought you'd get banned.

</my input>

Good day, young sir. I've just had a lovely weekend, I'm not about to blow my buzz by having an argument about nothing.

[hackman]

whaaaaaaaaat are you actually insane

[magma]

No, I just have different opinions to you on a few issues that don't affect our day to day lives. I don't like it when people I don't know kill people I don't know and I'd like them all to stop doing it (both sides).

It's quite a minor difference of opinion really. You're clearly a very nice guy.. I don't really want to argue about nothing on the internet.

[hackman]

how don't i agree with my first post?


just to clear up, as this has obviously gone right over your head
i said this to defend myself against your comments insinuating that i had no problem with innocent israelis citizens getting killed
i should have added innocent civilians on the end

because i haven't posted anywhere in this thread anything that says that I think they would be justified

IN KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS

[magma]

how don't i agree with my first post?

Well, your first post is a question, not a statement... but to me "bombing the shit out of Israel" implies attacking civilian targets. Most targets Palestinians have attacked during my lifetime have been civilian, that's a fairly broad characteristic of the conflict. If they tended to attack political targets, I'd probably feel rather differently.

I don't like people attacking civilian targets. I don't like that our army attacked civilians in Iraqand Afghanistan. I don't like that Israel attacks civilians in Palestine and I don't like that Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, the IRA, the UVF, ETA, Al Qaeda and countless other organisations attack civilians worldwide.

I'd like to see the world get massively tougher on Israel, but I don't think anything will be achieved by attacking civilians. If they are attacking people who have personally attacked them, then it's a different matter - that's attacking combatants, not civilians, and can be argued as self defense.

I'm really not attacking you... you asked for opinions ("Anyone think that..."), I gave mine.