the problem with dubstep productions today..

[FSTZ]

oh don't worry about me, I don't take shit the wrong way

I like music in all shapes sizes (beside country, trance and happy hcore bullshit)

even into all different flavors of dubstep

I just think that imitation vs innovation is the order of the day

but I don't care.. it helps the peoples with refreshing ideas stand out

[JFK]

What is sampling going to solve? What about learning to make music properly, instead of just nicking your favourite bits off a thrift shop record? If you do that, chances are, the best part of YOUR music is going to be the sample you made of somebody else's music.

Innit? Innit though? Get me? inart?

DJ Shadow, RJD2 et all, untalented thieves then?

Do you think they use sampling as a CRUTCH? If we took all their samples away, would there be anything left?

How about we get back to why music all sounds the same. The original poster HAD A POINT, but his solution wasn't a good one.

Why does a lot of Dubstep sound identical?

They dont use it as a crutch neccesarily but, Dj Shadow in particular, has based his entire artistic career around sampling....

But sorry, like you said thats not the original point..

A lot of Dubstep sounds identical because its too easy to make generic shit now. Its almost like people have become too willing to accept mediocre tunes now. All the average club crowd want is something that sounds aggressive and loud, and that has to be one of the easiest emotions to put over in a tune.

It takes effort and the right mindset to get into deeper types of music (not just deeper Dubstep) and the vast majority of people are not looking for that type of connection with the music they listen to. They just want to brock out. This also applies to the vast majority of producers, its easy to load up massive, and play mindless wobbles over a half time kick and snare, and if you know the right people then your tunes will get played in clubs and then everyone will think you are great and that is ALL most producers care about.

/rant

[FSTZ]

I thought we were discussing sampling within dubstep?

[wang]

because lack of original thought...

not lack of sAmpling

...Stop talking sense...this is the production forum!

Original thought? Pshaw! Perhaps a new VSTI is needed? That'll make people sound different!

Here's a brand new synth! It can do anything! Any sound you like! I'll be back tomorrow to listen to what you did with it....

....tiptoes off....

......next day...

...Oh look, you assigned a tempo synced LFO to the cutoff filter to the cutoff (that only you can hear is 'different') and to that you just added an ED 209 sample and a half step beat...

GROOVY!

[FSTZ]

heh....



this thread

[j_one]

A lot of dubstep remixes you see on YouTube get to me the most. You can grab literally any song you want, play the defining part of it, then drop into some crazy wobblez that have no correlation to the original tune. People will lap it up because they love the original plus it's so "now" because it's "dubstep". Easy for the "producer" and they get mad props. I'm pretty sure I could create a web app that could remix any tune into dubstep

[moki]

the problem is simple, Producers aren't sampling anymore, sampling and "crate digging". In the early 90s. Rave music was aboout 75% sampled sounds from hip hop. The rest of it was synths and soundmodules. All dubstep now is presets from VSTi's. that's why it all sounds the same, I'd like to hear more vairity. It's bad to listen to a dubstep tune and go, I know that preset off Albino or whatever.

Doesn't have to be actual crate digging, you can sample mp3s I guess. I think people need to listen to more 20th century music. there's still more good fish to catch from the 20th century.

Um... I think you can get way more original sounds by making them your self on synths. Sampling is using other peoples sounds so how is that more original?

I think people need to stay away from presets not synths in general. I think the synth is the most versatile instrument there is, one instrument with sonic ability bound only by your imagination.

[abZ]

What is sampling going to solve? What about learning to make music properly, instead of just nicking your favourite bits off a thrift shop record? If you do that, chances are, the best part of YOUR music is going to be the sample you made of somebody else's music.

Innit? Innit though? Get me? inart?

DJ Shadow, RJD2 et all, untalented thieves then?

Do you think they use sampling as a CRUTCH? If we took all their samples away, would there be anything left?

How about we get back to why music all sounds the same. The original poster HAD A POINT, but his solution wasn't a good one.

Why does a lot of Dubstep sound identical?

They dont use it as a crutch neccesarily but, Dj Shadow in particular, has based his entire artistic career around sampling....

But sorry, like you said thats not the original point..

A lot of Dubstep sounds identical because its too easy to make generic shit now. Its almost like people have become too willing to accept mediocre tunes now. All the average club crowd want is something that sounds aggressive and loud, and that has to be one of the easiest emotions to put over in a tune.

It takes effort and the right mindset to get into deeper types of music (not just deeper Dubstep) and the vast majority of people are not looking for that type of connection with the music they listen to. They just want to brock out. This also applies to the vast majority of producers, its easy to load up massive, and play mindless wobbles over a half time kick and snare, and if you know the right people then your tunes will get played in clubs and then everyone will think you are great and that is ALL most producers care about.

/rant

There is some truth here for sure. Don't get me started. I am not in the mood to rant tbh

[Subside]

Well atleast this thread cleared up what sampling is for me, tbh I never actually knew. I think I have never done any of this sampling business because I don't have the right tools to could be wrong though?

[j_one]

You don't need any "tools" per say... you could sample an mp3 if you wanted (just extract the parts you want in your daw or audio editor).

I think too many people assume by sampling you're just using a whole chunk straight up without fucking with it (which imo can be as creative a process as designing a sound in a vst).

As has been said, it's not the techniques that are lacking anyway it's the ideas.

[soulshynchyld]

nada wrong with using synths, but its all about creating an original sound!! 100% of my music is original thought. nada like my stuff. i have been playing with samples in the last couple of months, it makes the wayyyy easia. but i splice the fuk out of it & it would be hard to guess the original.

but... i have bin thinking of doing a few pisstake sample only tracks of fukn horrible cheesy as track that would be catchy as.... put dubstep in my name on youtube & see how many people will love the shit. same ice ice baby vs britney spears with a midrange wabwab... or maybe a sub wab & let people tell me how deep my shit is!!!
easy too make tracks for the masses!!! but making your own style & getting the masses to listen to it is another matter!!

[wang]

Is it the sounds that are uninspired? Or is there more to it?

How is it that a guitar can produce a million memorable pieces of music? A basic, fucking hippy bollocks acoustic guitar with some barefooted stoner playing it? They can play something which will stick in your head and it sticks there because it's probably worth remembering.

.. And then somebody with a shit ton of synths, effects, 'production knowledge' and an obsession for making original patches knocks out a tune (or choon) they obsessed with for a month. They bore you with how much work went into it. You listen to it in its entirety and tell them it's good because its sonically impressive. An hour later, you try to recall how it sounded, yet cannot. None of it has stuck.

This is part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. Some music is memorable, some is so fucking insipid and bland that you can forget it in an instant. Nothing sticks because nothing is worth remembering. It doesn't matter how much you tweaked your cutoff knob or how many hours you played with the envelope or how much you automated your velocities. It's so easily forgotten. It's gone. It doesn't haunt you. It's so fucking bollocks bland that even the original producer probably couldn't remember what it sounded like the next day, if he (or she) had the balls to be honest...



This is part of the problem, I think. The other is lack of any ideas, as has been mentioned. Tracks are throwaway things made for shits and giggles with no actual meaning or fire behind them. Even the so called angry tracks are made by producers who don't give a fuck about anything. No real passion.

[boot]

Weird, most producers I know sample anything & everything they can get their hands on.

[boot]

No real passion.

Total and utter copout.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there's no passion there. Majority of producers producing the heavier stuff live and breathe music and wouldn't know what to do if it wasn't in their lives. Sure yeah there's alot of samey stuff but that's like anything really. Doesn't change the fact that these producers have a passion for it.

[mc wayne]

this thread is stupid

You made it

no a didn't. you did.

[staticcast]

Is it the sounds that are uninspired? Or is there more to it?

How is it that a guitar can produce a million memorable pieces of music? A basic, fucking hippy bollocks acoustic guitar with some barefooted stoner playing it? They can play something which will stick in your head and it sticks there because it's probably worth remembering.

.. And then somebody with a shit ton of synths, effects, 'production knowledge' and an obsession for making original patches knocks out a tune (or choon) they obsessed with for a month. They bore you with how much work went into it. You listen to it in its entirety and tell them it's good because its sonically impressive. An hour later, you try to recall how it sounded, yet cannot. None of it has stuck.

This is part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. Some music is memorable, some is so fucking insipid and bland that you can forget it in an instant. Nothing sticks because nothing is worth remembering. It doesn't matter how much you tweaked your cutoff knob or how many hours you played with the envelope or how much you automated your velocities. It's so easily forgotten. It's gone. It doesn't haunt you. It's so fucking bollocks bland that even the original producer probably couldn't remember what it sounded like the next day, if he (or she) had the balls to be honest...



This is part of the problem, I think. The other is lack of any ideas, as has been mentioned. Tracks are throwaway things made for shits and giggles with no actual meaning or fire behind them. Even the so called angry tracks are made by producers who don't give a fuck about anything. No real passion.

This. Absolutely this.

On a sidenote, I sometimes wonder how to what extent problems can be attributed to the fact that dubstep doesn't have a huge amount of history, and what history it does have is ambiguous and much up for debate. But the effect is twofold -- on the one side, you have artists breeding a tremendous amount of creativity, inspiration and experimentation, and consequently the sound of the genre evolves rapidly, characteristic of an art form in its infancy. On the other, a formula quickly establishes itself and you get an increasing number of would-be producers spending too much time trying to copy what's already there -- and not even the interesting stuff that's there, but the stuff that sells to Radio 1 and student clubnights. Top that off with the fact that a lot of dubstep producers are young and don't listen to much other than dubstep. So where does the inspiration come from? Where's the genetic diversity? You end up with pedigree breeds; one wobble ripping off the next and everything striving for the perfected, homogenous templates with nothing in between the well-defined avenues of "filthy wobble track", "lush and soulful 2-step track", "dark and broody yet still cheesy 'deep' track with movie sample", etc.

[aftee]

All the average club crowd want is something that sounds aggressive and loud, and that has to be one of the easiest emotions to put over in a tune.

It takes effort and the right mindset to get into deeper types of music (not just deeper Dubstep)

This is how I feel about it. There is no problem with "dubstep"...all these people just don't like a certain STYLE of dubstep. I'm pretty sure every side to it is being represented by more than one artist. People need to just listen to what they like.

I also think certain styles have a certain time. If I'm feeling hyped up or going to work out or something I'll probably tend to listen to more aggressive, hyped up tunes. Then again if I'm just doing everyday things and chilling around I'll probably listen to the deeper/mellowed out tunes. Then there are some tunes that are just good regardless and can fit both of those situations.

I think the reason the "tearout" side of dubstep normally comes to mind first is because a lot more people support and push that sound. You don't see all the fans of that style of dubstep posting up threads daily and bickering on them about how shit other dubstep artists are. Instead you see threads of tunes that they like and post up to share with other people. Most of those artists tend to enjoy the other sides of dubstep as well.

When I think about the deeper side I normally think the people into that are a lot more close-minded and quick to push away other styles. Examples being the normal 20+ page bitch threads. There are a lot of up and coming producers making both of these kinds of tracks. It seems there are a lot more labels and people interested in that "hype up" sound picking it up and spreading it and a lot less in the deeper side doing that. So I think a lot of artists that do try to venture into the deeper sound get discouraged by the lack of support and move on to other things.

Might be off topic a bit but that's my take on the situation. To all the people that want the deeper, "original" sound to come back...you need to start supporting and pushing the artists that are trying to do that. Believe me there are plenty making good, deeper tracks...but nobody into that sound finds them and picks them up like they do with the aggressive side.

[wang]

No real passion.

Total and utter copout.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there's no passion there. Majority of producers producing the heavier stuff live and breathe music and wouldn't know what to do if it wasn't in their lives. Sure yeah there's alot of samey stuff but that's like anything really. Doesn't change the fact that these producers have a passion for it.

No, I was talking about a lot of the empty ANGRY music that isn't really angry about anything in particular. You just quoted piecemeal. I was making another side point as to why a lot of so called 'angry' testosterone filled Dubstep is empty shite.

What I'm talking about is how much of the aggro stuff is made by people that are actually fucking angry? I know a lot of it is made by people who are happy as a pig in shit, waiting for Friday night so that they can get down to Lidl and buy some cheap plonk before it closes. Stupid sounds, stupid names for tracks made by stupid names for producers and no overall message to be gleaned from it.

Let's compare:

Nitzer Ebb - Fucking angry.

Bedroom Bro - LOLS, I got some bud and some video games and I'm quite happy just sittin' here.

End of.

[alphacat]

IMHO: You guys are all so close to the real crux, at least what I've discovered it to be lately in my own productions -

IF the original proposition is "much Dubstep lacks the sonic character/quality of earlier sample-driven music" and "it all sounds like it's made 'in the box' (computer) with plugins/software..." then:

Yes, this is largely true. But the missing component isn't sampling - it's the character/quality of what's being sampled, including its musicality - BUT ALSO and possibly more importantly, it's the fuckin' SIGNAL PATHS those recordings used, i.e. analog, line, stompbox, pre-amp, whatever -

i.e. taking it outside the box.

Even running your all-digital DAW-produced tune through a nice fat Avalon stereo compressor, or running your kicks out through hardware DBX 160's - even those simple things can add unbelievable life, warmth, character, definition to a track that began life as nothing more than 1's & 0's. Even using cassette recorders as a drum treatment can do impressive things!

Seriously.

Not to start an analog vs. digital flame-o-rama, because that shit's stupid. Use what works. Period. And don't be afraid to mix it up.

[boot]

No real passion.

Total and utter copout.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there's no passion there. Majority of producers producing the heavier stuff live and breathe music and wouldn't know what to do if it wasn't in their lives. Sure yeah there's alot of samey stuff but that's like anything really. Doesn't change the fact that these producers have a passion for it.

No, I was talking about a lot of the empty ANGRY music that isn't really angry about anything in particular. You just quoted piecemeal. I was making another side point as to why a lot of so called 'angry' testosterone filled Dubstep is empty shite.

What I'm talking about is how much of the aggro stuff is made by people that are actually fucking angry? I know a lot of it is made by people who are happy as a pig in shit, waiting for Friday night so that they can get down to Lidl and buy some cheap plonk before it closes. Stupid sounds, stupid names for tracks made by stupid names for producers and no overall message to be gleaned from it.

Let's compare:

Nitzer Ebb - Fucking angry.

Bedroom Bro - LOLS, I got some bud and some video games and I'm quite happy just sittin' here.

End of.

Yeah fair call, although I still think you are generalising