do you think humanity is worth saving?

[BLAHBLAHJAH]

to think of ones self as separate from the universe is as lost in ego as it gets.

Interesting point. More evidence of opposites being the same

[_v_]

its 330 am here now. goodnight from me. Peace.

[hayze99]

man you are full of hope for a better future, as am I..... to get back to the original post, yeah I do think theres something worth saving.... but not as things are at the moment, something has to change dramatically for that to happen, wether it be from our own actions or the actions of nature/the universe.... because as I see it we are heading down a dark path to extiction.


I dont want to prolong this debate about the human race being "gods" or having "god-like egos".... I see your point, but I think its really is just based on hope, your alot more optimistic than I am man, and we do need that optimism, but we also need to realize we are raping our own mother in the ass at the moment, and she aint happy about it.... she is and will fight back for her existence, I dont think its that obscure to consider, look at natural disasters etc escalating more and more since records began... but we will continue to create a justification for this one way or another because thats our nature, and continue with our greed and destruction untill its too late... I dunno, maybe this 2012 shit will lead to another chance/ start. Then we will have to wake up and see our fortune, learn from our mistakes, be thankful and understand that we cannot live again the way we did in the past... we are all to disconnected for this to happen at the moment, but unfortunately it takes a tragedy to unite us, so maybe a "tragedy" on a global scale will unite us on a global scale....

Wow, I actually was quite interested in your points until you brought 2012 into it. Don't inflate it off the charts and talk about us thinking we have become gods. First of all, we are the only sentient life that we know of so far in the universe, so so far, yes, we are the hottest shit in this galaxy. Secondly, we are the closest to the meaning of 'gods' that you are describing than anything else in the universe as well - shaping natural laws and so on. I mean, how can you undermine the invention of a television? Being able to emulate light waves and establish pictures is god-like in itself; it's miraculous.

Now stop right there, because I don't believe this means that we are gods (in the sense of the word I think you're using) or anything like it; I'm simply saying, how can you undermine our species when we have nothing to compare is to? Once again, as far as we know, there is nothing out there more intelligent or versatile than us (I don't believe this).

Lastly, your idea of egotistical humans is disproved by your own argument. Most of the people in this thread are arguing against the pride of humanity. Completely random estimations to establish a point would be that 33% of people show the same melancholy and self-loathing of humanity as you do. 33% are proud but humble (of which I can relate myself). 33% never even think about it, and something like 65% (overlapping the previous bits) believe in a god higher than themselves anyway. I'd say about 1%, of which people like Caligula were part of, actually, truly believe in the view that we are gods, and hold any sort of power of dominion whatsoever over the universe. These people also happen to be psychotic.

Again, I'm simply making a point that we don't know if there are any higher powers than us. Once we start terraforming and colonising other planets, inserting our atmospheres perhaps, from the point of view of other non-human consciousnesses, we will become gods in some sense of the word. The problem is with the word god. I'm not talking about omniscience; I'm talking about the power to change natural laws on a large scale. The whole word brings about a lot of crossing cables. Again, I'm not trying to be egotistical, I'm trying to be rational. I don't believe humans are gods (in most senses of the words), but I don't think ego really comes into it anyway. Ultimately, the universe, again, doesn't give a shit how egotistical we are. We're just playing it's infinite game.

Interesting shit, I'm reading a book called The Master and the Emissary (incredible so far, look into it), and in it they explain that the frontal lobe of the brain is where consciousness comes out of. The frontal lobes of less intelligent animals like dogs represent 7% of total brain volume. Those of apes, 17%, and of humans 35%. What exactly will happen when this ratio increases (and I'm sure it will)? Just to clarify, I believe there is a higher consciousness, but trying to penetrate it is equal to a fish trying to understand how our brain works; completely and utterly impossible in every sense of the word.

alright dude, its late here 3 am almost and im tired, but I think your getting a bit too upset about nothing... again I feel I have to clarify my statements..... when I said "i dont know maybe this 2012 shit will lead" look at the words, im saying "I dont know" and "maybe" im not stating "this will happen" weve all heard it, I was just entertaining the idea of the possibility thats is all.... my point was we think we are so superior to everything else because of technology, and everything you have said backs this up. You go on to talk about how we are the "hottest shit in this galaxy". and that "there is nothing out there more intelligent or versatile than us" but then you say "(I don't believe this)". So maybe you need to clarify that statement also, but my point earlier was that there is a more intelligent and versatile force out there than us, a much more powerful, intelligent and versatile force, and its nature/the universe.... of which we understand little.

and seriously, you cant make a valid point with "Completely random estimations to establish a point" im sorry but that mate is just laughable.



you have made interesting points, and I will agree with this statement you made which I think sums up my point exactly..........

"Ultimately, the universe, again, doesn't give a shit how egotistical we are. We're just playing it's infinite game".

I agree with everything you've said here. I also agree there is a more intelligent/versatile force that is the universe; I only argue that our consciousness is all that we know or ever will know, so we shouldn't take it for granted, or understate it. It is a wonderful thing. I just feel like to undermine humans as a species is more an insult to the universe in itself than us anyway. We are, after all, a product of the universe. I think we're just taking completely different approaches; but getting to kind of the same thing. What I meant by "we are the hottest thing in the galaxy" is that simply from a scientific, purely rational point of view, that is indeed how it seems. We have not found any other entity with sentience, but if one does open their mind and allow for other kinds of sentience and intelligence (which I'm trying to do), this may not be the truth.

I'm approaching it the wrong way, and need to open my mind up a little bit, I'm just venting out my frustration with having to study business right now, a good handshake is in order . I just feel like there's an undeserved criticism and undermining of the human race, and feel that it simply negates all the hard work and suffering that many human beings have had to endure for the good of humanity.

EDIT: And to both you and parson: Sorry, I know I'm just being aggressive and not showing the respect which your opinions deserve. I need to remind myself not to set up a brickwall whilst I'm arguing. You're both eloquent, clever bastards and I'm just being competitive. I'm not 100% sure I agree with all of the stuff I've said in the first place; I'm just throwing out points.

[_v_]

'twas an interesting conversation/debate man...I enjoyed it. No hard feelings whatsoever


I dont think I explained my problem with the human race, my problem is just that, we dont see ourselves as one human race, we see ourselves as divided in so many ways...

when we see ourselves as one race and can move forward together as one, then we will be worth saving.

But if we continue to divide ourselves apart and alienate each other, through greed or ignorance, profit from the loss of others, and fight amoungst ourselves, this cannot lead anywhere good or progressive.

I think it perhaps boils down to greed, and maybe a bit of ignorance. "This is mine, not yours, and I want to keep it that way" and/or "Ive got this but I want more"

until we realize we are one, thats it.

one blood
one love
one soul
one consciousness


our system dosnt want us to think of ourselves as one, "Shh, watch border patrol and the customs shows, look at the foreigners, they arnt like you we dont want them here, wave your flag, signup for the war" this type of shit. They dont want you to think that the child in Asia making the clothes you buy is your brother/sister, because you wouldnt want your brother or sister to work 18 hour shifts 7 days a week for less than a dollar a day, sleep in the factory in a closet with 3 other people and never see their family would you? and we would turn against that corrupt system, their system, where they get it all and we get the scraps if we are lucky. We are a race that lets others starve to death everyday and live homeless, we are a race that kills each other in wars everyday,


but fuck it right?.... "its nothing to do with me" "Lets watch Americas next top model on tv, now thats something I can connect with"..........you get me?


this of course is an Ideal, and I know the universe is made up of positive and negative and that one cant exist without the other... its just I think we can be doing much better here.

Babylon must fall in order for us to continue and progress ....


lets entertain a real abstract thought here for a moment....... If only just for fun......... discovering the meaning of life.

what if we can truly move together forward like I have described, to a time and moment where we might be able to discover this?

like reaching the end of a game.... "Congratulations!!! you did it!!!... now heres the meaning of life and the secrets of the universe"

[parson]

^^^ honestly that's the experience i have everytime i smoke dmt.

it's like congrats you win.

[_v_]

never tried, wouldnt mind one day...

[nousd]

when we see ourselves as one race and can move forward together as one, then we will be worth saving.

until we realize we are ...

one blood
one love
one soul
one consciousness

this of course is an Ideal:.....

what if we can truly move together forward like I have described, to a time and moment where we might be able to discover this?

Realizing that we are one doesn't abrogate our responsibility for ourselves nor those we have a vested interest in
nor does it change our personality and the way we function as part of the hive.
To live my individual life in the expectation of some miraculous Ascension or incipient heaven-on-a-stick
is unrealistic, futile and a source of unhappiness.
It is this pragmatism that makes it unnecessary to consider whether we are worth saving
...we will save ourselves irregardless of such a vacuous judgement.

[-dubson-]

Justifying our meaning/exsistence will save us from ourselves i am sure. Its like the point where a teenager moves out his parents' house and has to fend for themselves. Responability/maturity will be what keeps humanity functioning, with the rate of technological advances speeding up as it is who knows how soon it'll be.

[alien pimp]

we are one as much as yin and yang are one.
equilibrium, harmony, vibrations and more need at least two different points to exist
difference is life, oneness is death. can't say if that's good or bad

[nousd]

jeez
this did deteriorate into hippy shit

notwithstanding that

we really do deserve to survive
if only for our sense of humour
(good humour... not laughing at pregnant women being bayonetted etc.)
our paranoia & penchance to be panicked into consuming unwisely
our generosity directed towards those whom we don't want to know,
all this hypocrisy and thinly-disguised contempt for our lessers,
ability to ignore the needs of others with brilliant rationales

surely unique

presumably
we are inhabitants of a zoo established by amused aliens.

[hugh]

I think the positive people deserve to survive. All the pessimistic wankers who seem to have some inherent hatred for humanity can go fuck themselves as far as I am concerned. Get a fucking grip, really.

[nousd]

yeah pessimists
go fuck yourselves
íf yu manage to achieve that
yu should be cheered up heaps.



this is na aboot pessimism nor cheer
tis about ethics and resilience to corruption,
religious or kaotic

chaos
(Cyrus podcast is tops)
can't change that
wouldn't want to

freedom







if being sensitive



if loving women

if having an imagination


if justifying this existence

[parson]

we are inhabitants of a zoo established by amused aliens.

the mighty boosh agrees

[death_cafe]

I am a buddhist and believe that us dying out is a forlorn hope. It will go on!

[hifi]

hold on

[Shum]

quality bump brah

[m8son666]

No

[ultraspatial]

nah and it probably can't be

humanity is the devil

[sigbowls]

half the population should move to mars and earth should only use natural power. get rid of money cars and guns. only some people could have a kid

[nobody]

humanity is the devil

nah, just white people