to all the REAL dubstep lovers..

[joekool]

Well Mr. Joekool, we had a little back and forth through PM earlier. I will take my chances and step in again.

Basicly, what you say is, for the better part, truth (imo). But I have to make a few nuances (most of which I already raised to a certain extent in my PM to you).

i can't believe any of you seriously devote a speck of your time or energy to this musical eugenics bullshit
Well despite our little PM argument, I don't really. And you can check my post history if you don't believe. Why is this a loss of time? I don't quite see it. I can think of a million worse ways to spend 15 minutes. Granted, you can raise an issue/discussion once but to go on and on about it is another thing. But dont shoot off this discussion just because you think it's a waste of time. That's a little self-centered too.


this wasn't aimed at you, kinfolk. it was aimed at the general feeling i get sometimes from this board. im sure you yourself have noticed how condescending people can often be.


how often do you see someone like datsik or doctor p come on here and make jokes and talk shit about scuba/martyn/joker/burial/who the fuck ever? never
Because there really isn't that much to joke about. All the artists you mention have brought something new, a new & fresh sound. They could quite francly be called innovators. They have a work ethic to them. Am I claiming those other artists don't? Maybe, I'll leave that in the middle for now.


but my question still is, why does it seem like fans of the tear-out side of things don't make a big deal out of the fact that there's another side to dubstep, whereas fans of the "deeper" side often do? and don't say it's about quality, because if you listen to a good 16-bit track, you're hearing quality production values, interesting change-ups, unique stylistic touches, etc.. now, does a great 16bit track affect me the same way an average mystikz track does? no, not at all. the mystiks track will always be more special to me, but that's due to my personal taste, not the magical essence or w/e of the tune, which is what i want to hear people admit. that they just don't like it, and that's all there is to it, and that there's no greater moral dilemma surrounding the issue.


you're not as important as you think you are, guys
I don't see where you are getting at with this? Please clarify? You assume too much that this is just about a few isolated individuels who want some attention. I firmly believe you are mistaken in regards to that issue.


no, i believe that quite a few people have a very high opinion of themselves and their preference in music, and when they see something that is not within their range of taste, they rain down on it like it's actually going to make a difference.


do you think your average person gives a shit that Mt Eden remixed your fave Burial tune
Your average person has nothing to do with the issue at hand now isn't it? Again, mt eden can do as he please, but thievery and misplacement shouldn't go unpunished as far as I'm concerned. I'm not claiming someone should go on bbc news and proclaim that shit on national tv, what I am saying is that, atleast within a small community, someone can and should take a stance against things like this. Which has happened I suppose so I am happy person now! Oh, and I will never win a popularity contest, I' m far too much an asshole for that (really you should meet me 'in real life').


but the average person has so much to do with the issue at hand. the average person offers something that people within the scene need desperately: an objective view of the situation. and i wouldn't call a remix that is credited fully to the original artist that's only been released on youtube thievery or misplacement. and i doubt you're that much of an asshole, i haven't met too many people i can't get along with under the right circumstances.


talk shit about little kids who never had any exposure to jungle or garage, and whose only reference point for dubstep is dubstep itself?
Well, that's the issue innit? Again, pointing out the issue to 'the outside world' isn't really the point. But when someone claims to be part of something but refuses to educate him/herself to a certain extent, does he/she really deserve to be respected? I don't want to sound all gangster, but those people's opinion are worth less to me than my eastpack sticker I still have from the 90'ies. And there is no law against expressing that.
Quality over quantity I say, and I'm against lowering the standard. But thats strictly my opinion.


but the outside world is becoming aware of dubstep very rapidly, and the generation whose finding it now is discovering dubstep the same way the generation before it discovered jungle: with little to no knowledge of the sound that it's derived from. and eventually some of them will gain a deeper understanding, but that takes time, and you can only expect that for a while you'll have an influx of people who don't understand the complexities of dubstep but enjoy the sound they've heard it represented as. so my suggestion is to tolerate them and realize that they are coming from a different point of view, which can be a GREAT thing for the scene if they're given an inkling of respect. after all, that's how innovations happen.


I agree with you on the mindless battering of people and their tracks. I have my opinion about certain tracks and will discuss them with people through PM but not public. Or atleast I try to do so in a manner that's not offensive to the producers. But isn't part of a 'veterans' task to try and 'educate' newcomers to the scene. This scene again, shouldn't be a closed bubble, it should be open to anyone , but there should be a form of basic quality control. And I think if certain DJ's, radio show hosts etc. spoke out to this, this could be achieved.


i don't understand if you're saying, "isn't it a part of a veteran's task to try and educate" or, "it isn't a part of a veteran's task to try and educate". if you're saying it isn't, i would disagree. where else are they going to find that sort of stuff out? if you leave them to fend for themselves of course they'll be attracted to the dominant sound of the moment. and i think there already is a great degree of quality control, it just depends on what the listener's perception of quality is, doesn't it?


In a few years I'll be an old bastard and I will be fat and bald and I won't be going out much anymore. And everyone can listen to as much borgore as they like when that happens because I won't be around anymore. But as long as I can, I will try and educate people about a certain sound that with this generation gap, is getting lost in translation and it's a fact and you can minimalise it as much as you want.
And I think a lot of producers/DJ's are trying to do that, sticking to their own style which they have been cultivating since 2005. I support those DJ's and try to just ignore sounds I don't like as much as possible.


it's this mentality that borgore & his peers is going to be the model for what dubstep is evolving into that i think is most flawed. if i go out to a night, i don't hear much borgore. i don't hear much rusko. i don't hear much benga, or skream, or datsik, or mt eden, or anything like that. i honestly hear a lot of 2-step stuff more than anything! if there's a direction dubstep is moving as a whole, it's definitely that way, from what i've seen and heard.


But you all know, their is no such thing anymore as Going to a dubstep. Those days are over I'm afraid. Selection is the key. And thank god that some people who are putting up nights are starting to get that.

that last part is confusing to me. not sure what you meant at all.

[icanicant]

I have to say I do think it detracts from a lot of discussion. A lot of threads on here end up talking about the same thing every time. Not much we can do about it and it doesn;t really matter. i got into dubstep for the music not for the forum arguments lol

[-Lika-]

i like you.

[mattrelton]

I definitely also do not like how long your hair is, fuckin hippy.

[mattrelton]

Also, fuck you -
See my previous post

http://www.dubstepforum.com/loefah-goat ... 40456.html

[MrKoekje]

That was gratuitously long, but what I got from that rant is that we should all stop complaining about shitty wobbling dubstep when there's equally shitty 'deep' dubstep out there s well. Of course, the terrible deep stuff is harder to find than the wobble-stuff because like the music itself, the shittiness is more subtle!

[ST100]

do you think your average person gives a shit that Mt Eden remixed your fave Burial tune and all he did was put brutal electro over some horrid snares? do you think most people even know wtf you're talking about? they don't, and all they're gonna think is that you're a fucking nerd whose butthurt because someone you think is shitty is more popular than you.

do you think your average person gives a shit about your rant?

it's depressing as hell that there are grown men and women on here attacking teenage or barely grown producers and then the rest of you encourage them. there's nothing wrong with pointing out that a track is awful but you all are practically obsessed with tearing folks down. you don't love dubstep, you love yourself and you love the feeling of superiority you get when everyone agrees with how cool you are for dissing some kid that doesn't know any better.

grow the fuck up and stop whining about shit that is out of your control (thank god). rant over.

no, we're not obsessed with tearing people down, if that was the case we would just be ripping on everyone including eachother all the time. we don't "love the feeling of superiority" we're not "iNTeRNeT BaDMaNZz"

and, whining about shit that is out of our control... well... we can't do much about it, so we talk about it, or apparently "whine" about it, that's the point of a forum. we talk about shit.

[MUT3]

Yea this forum is pretty gay

[abZ]

I wouldn't say the forum is gay or even gone down hill. It has nothing to do with the forum it is the people that come on here that makes it what it is. That said I probably wouldn't even visit this part of the forum if I didn't run a a little label. I know a lot of dubstep lovers that avoid this forum like the plague now. It is a shame because at one point in time almost everything and everyone involved went through here and it had a community vibe. I don't mind an honest discussion at all but the threads are all spinning in circles now. This place is now the 140bpm version of DOA... well not quite there yet... wait until everyone quits discussing dubstep all together then it will be complete.

[joekool]

Also, fuck you -
See my previous post

http://www.dubstepforum.com/loefah-goat ... 40456.html

this is a confirmed fake. it has been for a while. good job getting trolled bro.

That was gratuitously long, but what I got from that rant is that we should all stop complaining about shitty wobbling dubstep when there's equally shitty 'deep' dubstep out there s well. Of course, the terrible deep stuff is harder to find than the wobble-stuff because like the music itself, the shittiness is more subtle!

not really but thanks for trying

do you think your average person gives a shit that Mt Eden remixed your fave Burial tune and all he did was put brutal electro over some horrid snares? do you think most people even know wtf you're talking about? they don't, and all they're gonna think is that you're a fucking nerd whose butthurt because someone you think is shitty is more popular than you.

do you think your average person gives a shit about your rant?

it's depressing as hell that there are grown men and women on here attacking teenage or barely grown producers and then the rest of you encourage them. there's nothing wrong with pointing out that a track is awful but you all are practically obsessed with tearing folks down. you don't love dubstep, you love yourself and you love the feeling of superiority you get when everyone agrees with how cool you are for dissing some kid that doesn't know any better.

grow the fuck up and stop whining about shit that is out of your control (thank god). rant over.

no, we're not obsessed with tearing people down, if that was the case we would just be ripping on everyone including eachother all the time. we don't "love the feeling of superiority" we're not "iNTeRNeT BaDMaNZz"



and, whining about shit that is out of our control... well... we can't do much about it, so we talk about it, or apparently "whine" about it, that's the point of a forum. we talk about shit.

wow, you managed to avoid every actual point i made and still somehow reply to me. it must take years of being on the losing side of arguments to develop that kind of skill. try again, and think harder this time



i really like how you guys all immediately get defensive like i'm attacking YOU personally. did i ever single any of you out? the only thing i did was point out the fact that it's fucked up to pick on what are basically kids over the internet and then pat yourself on the back for knowing so much more than them about dubstep. sorry, i didn't know that asking for people to be respectful towards one another was an offensive stance to take. what exactly did i say that made me a jerk? my tone might be grating but all of your attitudes are even more grating.

i came to DSF because i loved dubstep, not because i wanted to go back to fucking middle school and argue about how to keep the fucking preps and jocks from finding out about my fave band (and then moaning for 40 days and 40 nights when they inevitably do). this is simple shit, you guys. it's not like you've never been dragged down this road before...

[collige]

i really like how you guys all immediately get defensive like i'm attacking YOU personally. did i ever single any of you out? the only thing i did was point out the fact that it's fucked up to pick on what are basically kids over the internet and then pat yourself on the back for knowing so much more than them about dubstep.

Funnily enough, the person you were attacking with that post is a kid.

[joekool]

i really like how you guys all immediately get defensive like i'm attacking YOU personally. did i ever single any of you out? the only thing i did was point out the fact that it's fucked up to pick on what are basically kids over the internet and then pat yourself on the back for knowing so much more than them about dubstep.

Funnily enough, the person you were attacking with that post is a kid.

who/what/when/where/why/how?

[therapist]

What I can't believe is that anyone is surprised by any of this shit. This is the internet, it's just what happens. I don't think I've ever even said the word bro-step in real life, but on here you can barely read a page without seeing the phrase.

[Ayatollah]

Well put joekool, it's been bugging me lately as well. I guess the Internet is just a really immature place, and after some time everything regresses to youtube-comment-like quality. It's a fucking shame.

Thank god for the House and Production subforums, they make this site worthwile.

[joekool]

What I can't believe is that anyone is surprised by any of this shit. This is the internet, it's just what happens. I don't think I've ever even said the word bro-step in real life, but on here you can barely read a page without seeing the phrase.

exactly the issue.. people who haven't heard much about dubstep who end up here would think that the genre is about to collapse in on itself, which couldn't be farther from the truth. OT: is your name "therapist" or "the rapist"?

Well put joekool, it's been bugging me lately as well. I guess the Internet is just a really immature place, and after some time everything regresses to youtube-comment-like quality. It's a fucking shame.

Thank god for the House and Production subforums, they make this site worthwile.

production forum rules #1

[feral witchchild]

I can't tell who's trolling in this thread.

Response pending.

[bolsty]

Can't believe how contradictory you are Joe. Why didn't you just post this in one of the other bitch threads, instead of making your own...

[MUT3]

Can't believe how contradictory you are Joe. Why didn't you just post this in one of the other bitch threads, instead of making your own...

Why you bitchin about bitchin in another bitch thread dawg?

haha snaaaap

[robsteppin]

zZzZZzzzzz BORING!! this topic has been done to death, what people need to realise is everytime you start a post saying so an so are shit, listen to this waste your actually promoting them because most of these youtube producers wouldn't be heard of on here untill someone posts it. I didnt know who datsik, mt eden, borgore where untill it was posted on here.

So if you wanna promote the sound you love then don't play/listen/bitch about the people you don't like just leave them to it, if they're getting recognition its because your everyday joe bloggs dosen't listen to dubstep with a sub and descent speakers they're listening to it out there laptop speakers so all the deep shit will sound like a slow boring tune.

If you Dj and you wana get your sound recognised keep playing the tunes you love and eventually people will get bored of the generic wobbletech shit and think these sub heavy tunes are banging. Everyone could see this mainstream shift coming so why keep going on about.

[LA_Boxers]

The internet is shit!! its all negativity really. Except maybe for random things people decide they like......such as stupid cats or little kids biting people.

You occasionally find a little gem here and there but i think its mainly about venting people frustration. I'd say out of 10 threads 7 would be people complaining about something. The other 3 could actually be people saying this is a good tune....altho some people will then say they hate it.

I would much rather people vent their anger on the net than in real life tho. So if you have to sift through a load of bollocks then so be it!!