Legend4ry's sub bass tutorial

[Basic A]

Massive's sub is a lot more beefier sounding than albino's and 3oscx but for me, its "to" beefy

Thats because Massive fails to put out a good sine.

How so?

Alalog modeled waveforms, thier not actually SINES they just serve a SINE purpose.

Massive gives every oscillatoe unique to massive color.

[staticcast]

Massive's sub is a lot more beefier sounding than albino's and 3oscx but for me, its "to" beefy

Thats because Massive fails to put out a good sine.

How so?

Alalog modeled waveforms, thier not actually SINES they just serve a SINE purpose.

Massive gives every oscillatoe unique to massive color.

Not sure about this mate. Have you run it through a spectrum analyzer? AFAIK the only part of massive that's even close to being modelled on analogue circuitry is the Acid filter, which is a bit like a Ladder/303 but not quite. The sine should be a sine.

[legend4ry]

Massive's sub is a lot more beefier sounding than albino's and 3oscx but for me, its "to" beefy

Thats because Massive fails to put out a good sine.

How so?

Alalog modeled waveforms, thier not actually SINES they just serve a SINE purpose.

Massive gives every oscillatoe unique to massive color.

Not sure about this mate. Have you run it through a spectrum analyzer? AFAIK the only part of massive that's even close to being modelled on analogue circuitry is the Acid filter, which is a bit like a Ladder/303 but not quite. The sine should be a sine.

Try it out if you own massive .

Instead of thinking what it "should" be, people should start finding out for themselfs - not everything is what it should be, for instance making the sound same on 5 different synths will probably give you at least 3 different results, even if its the same synthesis.

[JFK]

Alalog modeled waveforms, thier not actually SINES they just serve a SINE purpose.

Massive gives every oscillatoe unique to massive color.

Hmmm.... interesting stuff.

Gonna have to do some A/B with other synths.

[Basic A]

My advice, render a 'clean' 'sine' out of massive and zoom waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy in so you can see each wave.... that is not a perfect sine...

fwiw... neither is the 3xOsc...

Audacity makes perfect sines... dont know many synths do though....

[JFK]

Anyone remember those "cool edit pro" sine samples that someone uploaded a while back?

Those were fucking awesome..... I remember thinking at the time that they sounded slightly different to the sines from Massive......

Hmmmmm..... I say again.... Interesting stuff.

[Moxxiedubstep]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitally_ ... oscillator

This says more than enough.more than i wanted to type. just saying.

Now with that being posted, check the info about PWM waves below their duty cycle. hence a Sine wave.

And if im correct.... Massive has a "VA PWM" form.

- VA PWM , set wave to Pulse , Pulse width full Neg or Full Pos, @ -24 pitch, Lowpass4 , Cutoff @ 1/6 of the range.-

Colour or not.

[staticcast]

My advice, render a 'clean' 'sine' out of massive and zoom waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy in so you can see each wave.... that is not a perfect sine...

fwiw... neither is the 3xOsc...

Audacity makes perfect sines... dont know many synths do though....

You do know that's just because your DAW display isn't "joining the dots" on neighbouring samples, right? I'm guessing Audacity draws a straight line between samples; that's why it looks like a perfect sine. Your audio interface gets one sample per "dot", so it doesn't make a difference to what you hear.

I just ran Massive through a spectrum analyzer and you can be damn sure it's putting out a sine wave pure enough that you'd never hear the difference...

[Moxxiedubstep]

My advice, render a 'clean' 'sine' out of massive and zoom waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy in so you can see each wave.... that is not a perfect sine...

fwiw... neither is the 3xOsc...

Audacity makes perfect sines... dont know many synths do though....

You do know that's just because your DAW display isn't "joining the dots" on neighbouring samples, right? I'm guessing Audacity draws a straight line between samples; that's why it looks like a perfect sine. Your audio interface gets one sample per "dot", so it doesn't make a difference to what you hear.

I just ran Massive through a spectrum analyzer and you can be damn sure it's putting out a sine wave pure enough that you'd never hear the difference...

Thanks Static Cast .

[Brisance]

http://i50.tinypic.com/vecack.png
If massive puts out a good sine, what are these harmonics then?

[Moxxiedubstep]

http://i50.tinypic.com/vecack.png
If massive puts out a good sine, what are these harmonics then?

You dont even have your settings right. Thats not Massives fault, its the user. You have the wrong wave spectrum , you need PWM and you dont even have a low pass filter on... Even in albino 3 you need a low pass filter. i think that goes for all vsti's making sub bass. And your pitch isnt even in the negatives.

[staticcast]

http://i50.tinypic.com/vecack.png
If massive puts out a good sine, what are these harmonics then?

Good question. Does your analyzer have a scale? I can see harmonics on my plot, but the second harmonic is at -110 dB or so below the main peak. I'm guessing that's what the very dark blue lines on your plot are showing too. -110dB is totally inaudible, below the noise floor of a CD.

[studio dread]

You dont even have your settings right. Thats not Massives fault, its the user. You have the wrong wave spectrum , you need PWM and you dont even have a low pass filter on... Even in albino 3 you need a low pass filter. i think that goes for all vsti's making sub bass. And your pitch isnt even in the negatives.

Am i missing something with this PWM thing? I don't understand how using that and a lp filter would result in a sine wave?? He has the synth set to what Massive says should be a sine. It doesn't matter about pitching down.

[studio dread]

For what its worth i don't know why everyone is scared of some harmonics anyway, just do what sounds best

[Brisance]

We were talking about putting out sines out of the osc, EQs are out of the question in this case... what does the pitch have to do with anything?
By the way setting massive quality to "ultra" actually creates MORE harmonics on the same sine.

[staticcast]

We were talking about putting out sines out of the osc, EQs are out of the question in this case... what does the pitch have to do with anything?
By the way setting massive quality to "ultra" actually creates MORE harmonics on the same sine.

Try it on an analyzer with an amplitude scale; a color-based one is pretty misleading. I'll say it again: harmonics at -110 dB are completely inaudible. If you burn something onto CD anything under -96dB gets rounded to zero or dithered to noise anyway.

[Moxxiedubstep]

We were talking about putting out sines out of the osc, EQs are out of the question in this case... what does the pitch have to do with anything?
By the way setting massive quality to "ultra" actually creates MORE harmonics on the same sine.

I never mentioned EQ'ing or anything about "ultra" considering i always run "eco" . The pitch being lowered goes below the PWM duty cycle/range of operation which leaves its root operation of a sine. Scroll up. I already explained everything. And a low pass filter "FILTERS" out those harmonics. check that link. find info on PWM

[staticcast]

We were talking about putting out sines out of the osc, EQs are out of the question in this case... what does the pitch have to do with anything?
By the way setting massive quality to "ultra" actually creates MORE harmonics on the same sine.

I never mentioned EQ'ing or anything about "ultra" considering i always run "eco" . The pitch being lowered goes below the PWM duty cycle/range of operation which leaves its root operation of a sine. Scroll up. I already explained everything. And a low pass filter "FILTERS" out those harmonics. check that link. find info on PWM

You be talkin nonsense bro. This has nothing at all to do with PWM.

[Moxxiedubstep]

We were talking about putting out sines out of the osc, EQs are out of the question in this case... what does the pitch have to do with anything?
By the way setting massive quality to "ultra" actually creates MORE harmonics on the same sine.

I never mentioned EQ'ing or anything about "ultra" considering i always run "eco" . The pitch being lowered goes below the PWM duty cycle/range of operation which leaves its root operation of a sine. Scroll up. I already explained everything. And a low pass filter "FILTERS" out those harmonics. check that link. find info on PWM

You be talkin nonsense bro. This has nothing at all to do with PWM.

lol wait what ? do you know how pulse width modulation even works? it regulates the amplitude of voltage/electricity , hence duty cycle...... im not going to bother going in depth. im sure you can research.

"The simplest way to generate a PWM signal is the intersective method, which requires only a sawtooth or a triangle waveform (easily generated using a simple oscillator) and a comparator. When the value of the reference signal (the green sine wave in figure 2) is more than the modulation waveform (blue), the PWM signal (magenta) is in the high state, otherwise it is in the low state."

reference signal = root operation . all waves are based on them.

LOL @ you telling me what i dont know, When i apply these concepts and methods in my music.... smh -_-

[legend4ry]

Oi this threads supposed to be helpful, leave your moaning and egos at the door, in respect of those trying to help.

Please?