Equation: Grime MC's + Dubstep = ?

distinction · Post by **distinction** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:26 pm

I think another important point is away from if people are "feeling" Grime MCs on Dubstep, personally for me it goes deeper than that.

I know there are lots or heads from overseas on here and Im interested as to how the crowds respond to acts such as Roll Deep, Jammer, Skepta etc when they are performing? I have't been to a Grime rave overseas apart from Aiya Napa. Im from Leeds and proberly every "Grime" rave I have been to in the last year there has been trouble. I have been to every single DMZ and I have never even seen one screw face let alone trouble of any kind. I have noticed that when big MCs in the Grime scene get booked they attract the thuggish crowds which results in some form of violence at some point in the night.

Maybe Im wrong and correct me if I am, but was it coincidence that when Grime MCs started performing at FWD trouble occured? Even if it was a tiny amount of trouble its still something you dont want when your out trying to have a good time and its something you never see at Dubstep events. I have never heard of any trouble at FWD before the Grime boys came down, although I may be incorrect and please put me right if I am wrong.

If Grime MCs start getting on Dubstep whose to say the attitude and fronts they bring wont start bringing that sort of audience to Dubstep raves? Which would result in Dubstep not been able to get any venues for dances as club owners dont want a bad reutation at their clubs, this is what exactly happened with Grime. Also I remember when Dubstep was first submerging and certain Grime heads were quick to dismiss the sounds and now it seems they are supporting it?

However I must say Im feeling Skepta as an MC regardless of what music he is over. I find his lyrics refreshing and some of what I can relate with and make me laugh. Who says Grime has to be serious? It seems alot of heads take things too seriously. Just because the music is dark and serious doesnt mean you cant have fun or does it?

Thoughts?

djgyn · Post by **djgyn** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:26 pm

IF you don't want to call them grime then at least recognize that they fall under the general guise of UK hip-hop, which is referred to by grime with those of us not particularly interested in making the distinction between "crap MC 1" and "crap MC 2."

And just to be clear, I feel the same way about countless American rappers, whether it be the dictionary-gobbling backpackers of Def Jux or the soulless crunk dandies of Cash Money.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:29 pm

yup first trouble at fwd>> was when roll deep first were down there. also brought a crew that troubled the birds, chiefed the bar, teefed drinks etc. a long ting, and bare annoying for your averge fwd>> punter.

distinction · Post by **distinction** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:33 pm

peripheral wrote:streets and so solid are grime?? think you might be chucking all your uk mcs in the 1 basket mate....

So Solid became established as Uk Garage / Early Grime. The only reason they switched to Hip Hop was to try and touch a wider audience and become more accepted in the commercial market which is the exact same thing Roll Deep have done.

So Solid came with the first Crew Grime sounding tracks as they got bored of the 2 Step era and wanted to bring a darker edge to it as they came from Jungle backgrounds. Dilemma was proberly the first Grime tune built specifically for MCs.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:33 pm

djgyn wrote:IF you don't want to call them grime then at least recognize that they fall under the general guise of UK hip-hop, which is referred to by grime with those of us not particularly interested in making the distinction between "crap MC 1" and "crap MC 2."

And just to be clear, I feel the same way about countless American rappers, whether it be the dictionary-gobbling backpackers of Def Jux or the soulless crunk dandies of Cash Money.

I don't want to call them grime because they're not. strictly, they're MCs frmo the UK, but no-one in the uk refers to uk hip-hop (unless they're taknig about roots manuva. which normally is just the guardian these days). you personally might not be into MCs, but maybe if this is the case you shouldn't attempt definitions.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:35 pm

Distinction wrote:
peripheral wrote:streets and so solid are grime?? think you might be chucking all your uk mcs in the 1 basket mate....
So Solid became established as Uk Garage / Early Grime. The only reason they switched to Hip Hop was to try and touch a wider audience and become more accepted in the commercial market which is the exact same thing Roll Deep have done.

So Solid came with the first Crew Grime sounding tracks as they got bored of the 2 Step era and wanted to bring a darker edge to it as they came from Jungle backgrounds. Dilemma was proberly the first Grime tune built specifically for MCs.

I'd still count so solid as uk garage and roll deep as grime. certainly in their origins, even if both have drawn for the hip-hop to spread out and make $s.

and the streets....?!

djgyn · Post by **djgyn** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:38 pm

peripheral wrote:I don't want to call them grime because they're not. strictly, they're MCs frmo the UK, but no-one in the uk refers to uk hip-hop (unless they're taknig about roots manuva. which normally is just the guardian these days). you personally might not be into MCs, but maybe if this is the case you shouldn't attempt definitions.

I see what you're saying, but of course nobody in the UK calls it "UK hip hop" anymore than Americans call ours "American hip hop". It's just hip hop.

Personally, I think arguing the semantics of "genre definition" is silly and has filled up more useless space on internet forums than needed. I'm not into grime and you obviously are much more familiar with it and the disinctions, so how about I just don't debate you on it? Fair enough?

distinction · Post by **distinction** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:44 pm

peripheral wrote:
Distinction wrote:
peripheral wrote:streets and so solid are grime?? think you might be chucking all your uk mcs in the 1 basket mate....
So Solid became established as Uk Garage / Early Grime. The only reason they switched to Hip Hop was to try and touch a wider audience and become more accepted in the commercial market which is the exact same thing Roll Deep have done.

So Solid came with the first Crew Grime sounding tracks as they got bored of the 2 Step era and wanted to bring a darker edge to it as they came from Jungle backgrounds. Dilemma was proberly the first Grime tune built specifically for MCs.
I'd still count so solid as uk garage and roll deep as grime. certainly in their origins, even if both have drawn for the hip-hop to spread out and make $s.

and the streets....?!

At the end of the day everyone percieves the music differently.

It depends when you started calling Dark UK Garage, Grime and when you started calling 2 Step, UK Garage or when you started calling House, House and Garage then House and Garage just Garage.

So Solid came with tunes such as Oh No, Dilemma, You Dont Know, 21 Seconds etc I wouldnt call any of them UK Garage as tracks such as Kele Le Roc - My Love and 702 - You Dont Know (Resevoir Dogs Remix) is what I would class as UK Garage.

Every person is different and there is no set date when Grime was first titled or any music for that matter it is only given a title from the day you go "whats this music called?", "Grime". Its a waste of time trying to pigeon hole music at the end of the day it is what it is and lets just leave the music to do the talking.

Big up!

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:49 pm

djgyn wrote:
peripheral wrote:I don't want to call them grime because they're not. strictly, they're MCs frmo the UK, but no-one in the uk refers to uk hip-hop (unless they're taknig about roots manuva. which normally is just the guardian these days). you personally might not be into MCs, but maybe if this is the case you shouldn't attempt definitions.
I see what you're saying, but of course nobody in the UK calls it "UK hip hop" anymore than Americans call ours "American hip hop". It's just hip hop.

Personally, I think arguing the semantics of "genre definition" is silly and has filled up more useless space on internet forums than needed. I'm not into grime and you obviously are much more familiar with it and the disinctions, so how about I just don't debate you on it? Fair enough?

I don't know that I am more familiar (thanks distinction), I just thought that disliking the whole of grime on the basis of so solid (who I can't say I ever felt 2 tuff) might be a bit hasty. having said that, if you're not into MCs, then I could see why grime wouldn't be your bag.

and fully in agreement about genre debating and forums. it's long. but necessary if dubstep is not to lose out - just like uk garage/grime and any other musical movements that have fallen by the wayside because of a predominantly MC-focused approach that ends up causing trouble.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:49 pm

djgyn wrote:
peripheral wrote:I don't want to call them grime because they're not. strictly, they're MCs frmo the UK, but no-one in the uk refers to uk hip-hop (unless they're taknig about roots manuva. which normally is just the guardian these days). you personally might not be into MCs, but maybe if this is the case you shouldn't attempt definitions.
I see what you're saying, but of course nobody in the UK calls it "UK hip hop" anymore than Americans call ours "American hip hop". It's just hip hop.

Personally, I think arguing the semantics of "genre definition" is silly and has filled up more useless space on internet forums than needed. I'm not into grime and you obviously are much more familiar with it and the disinctions, so how about I just don't debate you on it? Fair enough?

I don't know that I am more familiar (thanks distinction), I just thought that disliking the whole of grime on the basis of so solid (who I can't say I ever felt 2 tuff) might be a bit hasty. having said that, if you're not into MCs, then I could see why grime wouldn't be your bag.

and fully in agreement about genre debating and forums. it's long. but necessary if dubstep is not to lose out - just like uk garage/grime and any other musical movements that have fallen by the wayside because of a predominantly MC-focused approach that ends up causing trouble.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:50 pm

djgyn wrote:
peripheral wrote:I don't want to call them grime because they're not. strictly, they're MCs frmo the UK, but no-one in the uk refers to uk hip-hop (unless they're taknig about roots manuva. which normally is just the guardian these days). you personally might not be into MCs, but maybe if this is the case you shouldn't attempt definitions.
I see what you're saying, but of course nobody in the UK calls it "UK hip hop" anymore than Americans call ours "American hip hop". It's just hip hop.

Personally, I think arguing the semantics of "genre definition" is silly and has filled up more useless space on internet forums than needed. I'm not into grime and you obviously are much more familiar with it and the disinctions, so how about I just don't debate you on it? Fair enough?

I don't know that I am more familiar (thanks distinction), I just thought that disliking the whole of grime on the basis of so solid (who I can't say I ever felt 2 tuff) might be a bit hasty. having said that, if you're not into MCs, then I could see why grime wouldn't be your bag.

and fully in agreement about genre debating and forums. it's long. but necessary if dubstep is not to lose out - just like uk garage/grime and any other musical movements that have fallen by the wayside because of a predominantly MC-focused approach that ends up causing trouble.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:53 pm

sorry about triple point. honestly this office broadband is RUBBish....

distinction · Post by **distinction** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:56 pm

peripheral wrote:sorry about triple point. honestly this office broadband is RUBBish....

haha

no worries mate, I just thought you posted three times to get your point across!

Back to the initial topic anyway!

djgyn · Post by **djgyn** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:02 pm

Distinction wrote:
peripheral wrote:sorry about triple point. honestly this office broadband is RUBBish....
haha

no worries mate, I just thought you posted three times to get your point across!

Hahaha, yeah it's browbeating!

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 pm

basically...no murking on dubstep pls.

distinction · Post by **distinction** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:18 pm

peripheral wrote:basically...no murking on dubstep pls.

Agreed,

I dont think Wiley sending for MC Shotgun over Anti-War Dub is a good idea.

slengleteng · Post by **slengleteng** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:18 pm

while were on the subject,

whats the name of that Wiley tune that Kode 9 plays alot..

got the bars.... Oi stupid, etc etc..

"you wanna clash who kid, im a mixtape badboy like whookid"

h*o*d · Post by **h*o*d** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:35 pm

basically...no murking on dubstep pls.

Agreed,

I dont think Wiley sending for MC Shotgun over Anti-War Dub is a good idea(quoted by Distiction) Very good point. I dont think im alone when i say that Grime MCs are always on a beef tip, WHY!! Its far too easy to spit about choppin up somebodys mum or murkin a next man. Every grime mc has the same lyrics, pure beef. I dont want 2 hear that on Dubstep, and im not the only 1.

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:41 pm

Distinction wrote:
peripheral wrote:basically...no murking on dubstep pls.
Agreed,

I dont think Wiley sending for MC Shotgun over Anti-War Dub is a good idea.

I think you're being too kind....

peripheral · Post by **peripheral** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:46 pm

Distinction wrote:
However I must say Im feeling Skepta as an MC regardless of what music he is over. I find his lyrics refreshing and some of what I can relate with and make me laugh. Who says Grime has to be serious? It seems alot of heads take things too seriously. Just because the music is dark and serious doesnt mean you cant have fun or does it?

Thoughts?

4 the record: yup generally feeling skepta as well. bare funny.

Equation: Grime MC's + Dubstep = ?

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